HCG suggestions for the experts????

im currently running this cycle:

weeks 1-10
TEST .E @ 250 e5d
weeks 1-9
DECA @200 mg weekly
weels 1-10
PRIMO @100 mg
weeks 1-10

nolva all the way at 20 eod.

The problem im having are my nuts even though im only running test .e at 250 mg e5d ,I react very good to test it does not take that much to get the job done,i do have hcg with me and i was thinking about next cycle where i will probably run test at a higher dosage ,but my nuts are not hanging at all ,so im taking any suggestion from the experts about hcg ,should i run it now to aid with the nuts and also the recovery process,
im thinking of running hcg at 500iu e4d for 3 weeks,im currently in my 4 week of my cycle,
thanks bros :banana: :banana: :banana:

Deca will do a number on you......... You could try running tribulus 4d ED and see if that will help with the atrophy....... if it doesn't then you could use 500iu 2x a week..... like Mon, Tue..... or Sat, Sun..... a week out from PCT.

But in reality this cycle isn't that hard and HCG shouldn't be needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kubano28

im currently running this cycle:

weeks 1-10
TEST .E @ 250 e5d
weeks 1-9
DECA @200 mg weekly
weels 1-10
PRIMO @100 mg
weeks 1-10

nolva all the way at 20 eod.

The problem im having are my nuts even though im only running test .e at 250 mg e5d ,I react very good to test it does not take that much to get the job done,i do have hcg with me and i was thinking about next cycle where i will probably run test at a higher dosage ,but my nuts are not hanging at all ,so im taking any suggestion from the experts about hcg ,should i run it now to aid with the nuts and also the recovery process,
im thinking of running hcg at 500iu e4d for 3 weeks,im currently in my 4 week of my cycle,
thanks bros :banana: :banana: :banana:

---

i forgat to add im running b-6 at 200 e/d

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

Deca will do a number on you......... You could try running tribulus 4d ED and see if that will help with the atrophy....... if it doesn't then you could use 500iu 2x a week..... like Mon, Tue..... or Sat, Sun..... a week out from PCT.

But in reality this cycle isn't that hard and HCG shouldn't be needed.

---

where can i find tribulus ,i have been told about it a couple of times and just cant find any info on where to get it,thanks

allsportnutrition.com sells it, almost every vitamin shop does as well

Swale's pct protocol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the pct protocol by Swale who is a Doctor who is a HRT specialist.


My PCT Protocol
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbigdog69

Swale's pct protocol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the pct protocol by Swale who is a Doctor who is a HRT specialist.


My PCT Protocol
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

---

good info ,bro :banana: :banana: ,thanks

:unsure: :scratch: ok bros ,thanks for replys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

Deca will do a number on you......... You could try running tribulus 4d ED and see if that will help with the atrophy....... if it doesn't then you could use 500iu 2x a week..... like Mon, Tue..... or Sat, Sun..... a week out from PCT.

But in reality this cycle isn't that hard and HCG shouldn't be needed.

---

ok i got my tribulus ,one more question ,do i run it all the way to pct or only while cycle.thanks bros

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kubano28

ok i got my tribulus ,one more question ,do i run it all the way to pct or only while cycle.thanks bros

---

Through the cycle and PCT at 4g ed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kubano28

im currently running this cycle:

weeks 1-10
TEST .E @ 250 e5d
weeks 1-9
DECA @200 mg weekly
weels 1-10
PRIMO @100 mg
weeks 1-10

nolva all the way at 20 eod.

The problem im having are my nuts even though im only running test .e at 250 mg e5d ,I react very good to test it does not take that much to get the job done,i do have hcg with me and i was thinking about next cycle where i will probably run test at a higher dosage ,but my nuts are not hanging at all ,so im taking any suggestion from the experts about hcg ,should i run it now to aid with the nuts and also the recovery process,
im thinking of running hcg at 500iu e4d for 3 weeks,im currently in my 4 week of my cycle,
thanks bros :banana: :banana: :banana:

---

#1-the test is too low.

#2-you probably dont need nolva for that low amount of test-its probably only hurting your gains.

#3-what primo are you running? be careful with primo, theres tons of fakes out there.

#4 id reccomend anastrozole (arimidex) over nolvadex-but only if you were running 400mg a week or more. @250/wk-i doubt an aromitase inhibitor will be necessary unless you VERY prone to gyno. I used to safely run 5-600 a week without anytype of anti e's-but im not prone.

#5 clomid. hcg is ok, but i wouldnt run too much of it-it will actually have the reverse effect. give it a few weeks for the deca to get out of your system, then hit a 500iu a day, for two days. then start some clomid. Start clomid around 100mg/day for a few days-then drop down and run it at 50mg/day for a couple weeks. I doubt youll be shutdown too hard with those dosages.

also-you may want to hit the hcg about 6 weeks into your cycle-the same way as above, just pick two days back to back and run 500iu each day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbigdog69

Swale's pct protocol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


.....The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?)........

---

Is he saying not to use Clomid in PCT? Just Nolvadex?

And during the cycle Arimidex instead of Nolva or together? :scratch:

Sorry about the Highjack bro, but it looked like you were done or maybe had the same question :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPL

#1-the test is too low.

#2-you probably dont need nolva for that low amount of test-its probably only hurting your gains.

#3-what primo are you running? be careful with primo, theres tons of fakes out there.

#4 id reccomend anastrozole (arimidex) over nolvadex-but only if you were running 400mg a week or more. @250/wk-i doubt an aromitase inhibitor will be necessary unless you VERY prone to gyno. I used to safely run 5-600 a week without anytype of anti e's-but im not prone.

#5 clomid. hcg is ok, but i wouldnt run too much of it-it will actually have the reverse effect. give it a few weeks for the deca to get out of your system, then hit a 500iu a day, for two days. then start some clomid. Start clomid around 100mg/day for a few days-then drop down and run it at 50mg/day for a couple weeks. I doubt youll be shutdown too hard with those dosages.

also-you may want to hit the hcg about 6 weeks into your cycle-the same way as above, just pick two days back to back and run 500iu each day.

---

my primo is legit ,im 100%sure ,but i stop taking it after the second week and i up my deca to 200mg a week,i m going to save the primo for another cycle and probably runit at 300 or 400 mg per week with some test.
about the nolvadex ,im running it also because water retention,i dont like the bloating from test ,and i dont think there is anything wrong with 20 mg of nolva eod,thanks for ur opininons bros :banana: :banana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stitch1967

Is he saying not to use Clomid in PCT? Just Nolvadex?
IMO...both
And during the cycle Arimidex instead of Nolva or together? :scratch:
IMO...together...they do both do seprate jobs.
Sorry about the Highjack bro, but it looked like you were done or maybe had the same question :D

---

:hello:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbigdog69

Swale's pct protocol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the pct protocol by Swale who is a Doctor who is a HRT specialist.


My PCT Protocol
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

---

this around the 6th doctor I've heard of who says l-dex at pct isn't agood idea.I've brought this topic up before and ppl argue against it with no facts.I'd really like to see some hard facts that l-dex actually is a good idea for pct.I've seen many against l-dex at pct tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPL

#1-the test is too low.

#2-you probably dont need nolva for that low amount of test-its probably only hurting your gains.

#3-what primo are you running? be careful with primo, theres tons of fakes out there.

#4 id reccomend anastrozole (arimidex) over nolvadex-but only if you were running 400mg a week or more. @250/wk-i doubt an aromitase inhibitor will be necessary unless you VERY prone to gyno. I used to safely run 5-600 a week without anytype of anti e's-but im not prone.

#5 clomid. hcg is ok, but i wouldnt run too much of it-it will actually have the reverse effect. give it a few weeks for the deca to get out of your system, then hit a 500iu a day, for two days. then start some clomid. Start clomid around 100mg/day for a few days-then drop down and run it at 50mg/day for a couple weeks. I doubt youll be shutdown too hard with those dosages.

also-you may want to hit the hcg about 6 weeks into your cycle-the same way as above, just pick two days back to back and run 500iu each day.

---

IMO..No one but you can determine if your test needs to be increased. This dose could be all you need if it is your first cycle. Now some would consider the deca to be a little high in relation to the test dose but others would not. Only you know if the novladex is needed depending on what ester you are using and how it affects you personally. I have known guys running 4g plus of test per week without novla and they have had no problems and some need it with 200mg of cyp per week. I know nothing about primo and I would only use arimidex if my water retention was too high for me. I want some water retention to help with my strength and my joints. Novla just competes with the estrogen at the receptors to inhibit from binding thus allowing the estrogen to flow and aid in water retention. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eddie8

IMO..No one but you can determine if your test needs to be increased. This dose could be all you need if it is your first cycle. Now some would consider the deca to be a little high in relation to the test dose but others would not. Only you know if the novladex is needed depending on what ester you are using and how it affects you personally. I have known guys running 4g plus of test per week without novla and they have had no problems and some need it with 200mg of cyp per week. I know nothing about primo and I would only use arimidex if my water retention was too high for me. I want some water retention to help with my strength and my joints. Novla just competes with the estrogen at the receptors to inhibit from binding thus allowing the estrogen to flow and aid in water retention. Just my 2 cents.

---

ok bro, so ur suggestion will be to use arimidex for water retention and not novadex,didnt think of using arimidex for my cycle!!!but maybe is a beteer choice even tho im on my fifth week already,im using deca for my joints ,but i really dont like the water retention i get from test and maybe from deca,so im not really sure about nolvadex helping me out too much at all regarding water retention.

and also i forgat to mention about test been increase ,im using test @250 mg e5d and i react very good to test so there is no need for more ,im usiong deca @200 mg per week and im also stoping deca one week prior to test

????