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07-14-2004, 03:01 PM #1
Trying to keep it simple for first time
Alright guys, bear with me, this might get a bit long.
Background: Lifting for a little over 7 yrs, about 2 (maybe a little more) very seriously. Pics of me are available, follow the link From VERY FAT to... . I am in week 4 of my 4 week M1T cycle, and been happy with the results. Along with being happy it has peaked my interest in aas also. Something I said that I would never do, but that was when I was much less educated (before I found this and other sites and started reading). I have been working with NSA in the supplement forum on a cycle, and waiting for some feedback from him. While I am waiting, I thought I would run the idea in here.
Goals: Add about 15-20 lbs lean muscle, and keep the gains. Want very little/no bloat. Obviously, like everybody else, as few sides as possible. I am not very prone to acne, hair loss is not in my family (but you never no), and I was at one time very fat, so I don't really want a lot of fat. Want minimal injections because I want minimal needles capable of being around my nearly 2 yr old son.
Possible setback: I am not a good bulk eater. I really have to concentrate on keeping calories up in a day. I am so used to having to try and diet and lose weight, I am not good at having a 3500+ cal intake.
Stats: Turn 25 y/o in September (probably when I will run cycle). Currently 5'10", 190 lbs, about 9.5% BF.
Proposed cycle:
Wks 1-4 10 mg M1T ED
Wks 1-12 500 mg/wk (250, twice/wk) Test E
Wks 1-12 10mg Nolvadex ED
Wks 13-17 20mg Nolva ED
Wks 15-17 Clomid (300-100-50)
Wks 1-17 Multivitamin ED
Wks 1-4 1500mg Hawthorne Berry Extract
Wks 13-17 1000mg Milk Thistle
Trying to keep it simple, and to the point. Let me know what you think. I hope I provided enough info to benefit from the answers. Also let me know if anything should be added or subtracted to minimize sides/bloat. Thanks in advance.
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07-14-2004, 03:12 PM #2
looks good, u dont need the M1T, is it there to kickstart or for some other reason?
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07-14-2004, 03:14 PM #3
i would also run clomid 1 week longer
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07-14-2004, 03:20 PM #4
Yeah, there for kickstart. I have been thinking about dropping it, but thought I could get a jump while waiting for the E to kick. What do you think?
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07-14-2004, 03:26 PM #5
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I dont know jack about M1T but id kickstart with prop or dbol ...
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07-14-2004, 03:29 PM #6
Might consider dbol , but too many injections with prop. Everything I research/read says ED, or EOD. That is more than I want to do for first time at least. Dbol I will have to look into more. Just seems most people say do a test only first.
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07-14-2004, 03:32 PM #7
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They are panzies.....j/k
I see nothin wrong with jumpstarting a first cycle with dbol ...
Be ready for the back pumps tho..
and impressive transformation bro...
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07-14-2004, 03:34 PM #8
Originally Posted by ToughGuy13
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07-14-2004, 03:36 PM #9
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Right on... they dont bother me too much either..... just lets me know its working heh
Most people take around 35mg ed for 4 weeks.
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07-14-2004, 03:37 PM #10
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-14-2004, 03:43 PM #11
keep it simple bro. i ran test at 400 mg weekly for 12 and gained 28. no dbol , no anti estrogens.
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07-14-2004, 03:49 PM #12
Originally Posted by itsallmental
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07-14-2004, 03:50 PM #13
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Ya hes sayin just keep them on hand...
I guess it depends on how patient you are... wait 4 weeks for the test or couple days for the dbol ...
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07-14-2004, 03:50 PM #14
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-14-2004, 03:53 PM #15
I'm hard working, but patience is not a virtue I have. I will have to read more about it. It is conflicting what I was thinking originally (test only), but makes some sense.
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07-14-2004, 03:54 PM #16
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-14-2004, 03:56 PM #17
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Originally Posted by dirtdawg
No one said dont take clomid guy.....
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07-15-2004, 04:15 PM #18
Well, here is what it is looking like now. My only concern is bloat. I read a lot about bad bloat with both dbol and E. Guess I will have to consider adding the .25 of ldex.
Wks 1-4 30 mg dbol ED
Wks 1-12 500 mg/wk (250, twice/wk) Test E
Wks 1-12 10mg Nolvadex ED
Wks 13-17 20mg Nolva ED
Wks 15-17 Clomid (300-100-50)
Wks 1-17 Multivitamin ED
Wks 1-4 1500mg Hawthorne Berry Extract
Wks 13-17 1000mg Milk Thistle
How does that look for a September cycle?
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07-15-2004, 04:18 PM #19
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-15-2004, 04:23 PM #20
Longer you think. 20 mgs throughout, and run clomid and nolva 1 extra week. Is that what you are thinking?
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07-15-2004, 04:25 PM #21
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-15-2004, 04:31 PM #22
So you would propose this:
Wks 1-4 30 mg dbol ED
Wks 1-12 500 mg/wk (250, twice/wk) Test E
Wks 1-18 20mg Nolva ED
Wks 15-18 Clomid (300-100-50)
Wks 1-17 Multivitamin ED
Wks 1-4 1500mg Hawthorne Berry Extract
Wks 13-17 1000mg Milk Thistle
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07-15-2004, 04:33 PM #23
14-18 clomid
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07-15-2004, 04:35 PM #24
I thought 3 weeks after last inject to start clomid. What kind of history do you have with this? I am just trying to figure out the difference between what I have been reading, and the feedback I am getting. Doesn't seem out of line, just different. Thanks for all the help so far
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07-15-2004, 04:43 PM #25
Originally Posted by birsling
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07-15-2004, 04:49 PM #26
Start 3 weeks prior to cycle with Letrozole and continue it all the way too PCT @ 1 mg ED.
Don't worry about calories just worry about proteins,
Lean meats, fish, and chicken are good sources!
Also during cycle think about proteinshakes (taste like milkshakes)
take a 60% Milkprotein/30% whey/10% glutamine peptides mixture
50 grams first thing in the morning
50 grams 1 hour after work-out
30-50 grams 50% Milkprotein/50% Calcium Caseinate right before bed!
(order the two mixtures with Aminogen! and if you want vitaminmix)
A good cycle would be:
week 1-12 Test Enantate 250 mg E3D
week 9-14 Anavar 50 mg ED
PCT week 16
or if you are up to it:
week 1-14 Test Enantate 250 mg E3D
week 1-12 Boldenon 200 mg E3D
week 9-14 Anavar 50 mg ED
PCT week 16
You can also include Clen +Taurine (80-100 mcg + 5 grams ED) for two weeks on and two weeks off with an ECY-stack on "off-weeks".
ECY is best made using 1fast400 supplies using
(Vasopro Ephedrine 25 mg + 200 mg Cafeine + 5 mg Yohimbine + 40 mg Guggelsterones + 75 mg Acetyl-L-carnitine) 3 times a day!
And if you decide to do Clen + ECY with cycle, then shedule it that the last blitz of that is 30 days of clen+taurine (+ketotifen, because it will otherwise loose it's effect because 30 days is too long) during PCT.
While not a guarantee, but with proper training, the second cycle will yield 20-30 lbs or more in LBM gains while dropping fatpercentage about 5%...
And it will also get rid of that "excess-skin" problem you mentioned!
Greets
Kingofmasters
Forgot to mention that 60-80 grams of carbs within 15 minutes of completing your training is also very important!
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07-15-2004, 04:55 PM #27
King,
You think stack with var instead of front-loading dbol ? Why? I remember you talking about letro before also. How is that going to help with the extra skin? That is mostly covering my lower abs, which I would love to get rid of!
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07-15-2004, 05:53 PM #28
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use anti-e's to keep the bloat down.
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07-16-2004, 02:57 AM #29
Originally Posted by birsling
Letrozole also gets rid of the estrogenic fat deposits and excess water, making the "tightning" of the skin after loosing a lot of weight to happen much faster (This only holds true to people below about 30 years old)...
Don't front with Dianabol --> People use it so they can feel "the steroidpump" faster, but I never liked the idea of Dianabol (I don't like it's characteristics and sides!)...
And as to you being very fat at one point, I think you probably can appreciate the bloat and extra fat that Dianabol brings (Letrozole can keep that a bit in control though) a lot less than the skintightning, muscledefining, fatshredding, vascular making Ripness Drug that is Anavar!
Greets
Kingofmasters
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07-16-2004, 06:48 AM #30
Now this is sensible conversation. Do you recommend stacking that for a first cycle though? Sounds great, but is someone able to handle it for first time?
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07-16-2004, 07:13 AM #31
No that's why i said of you are up to it!
I would just do the first cycle:
Week 1-12 Test Enan. 250 MG E3D
Week 9-14 Anavar 50 mg ED (if you find it to expensive take winstrol )
PCT week 14
VERY important!
Proteinguidelines and Protein and carbs timing!
And Letrozole taken 3 weeks prior to cycle!!
Greets
Kingofmasters
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07-16-2004, 01:08 PM #32
Everyone,
Thanks for all the help thus far. King, I like your idea (at least the theory) of the Test E and Var cycle. I will see how it comes out price wise. Does anyone know what I should be paying for Var? I will have to track that down.
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07-16-2004, 01:18 PM #33
bro do test e cycle @ 600mg (300 2x a week) for 12 weeks you will get the results you want
also look int a test e and eq cycle since you want lean mass that will stay with u longer **** the dbol get more experience with gear first
test only or a test eq cycle
u will be very satisfied
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07-17-2004, 10:53 AM #34
Juice, sounds like a decent idea. I have dropped the idea of the dbol . Reading more about it, doesn't sound like it is for me. I like the idea of a kickstart, but I think I will be more patient. So far, I like what King is saying. He has been on me with this letrozole idea, and I like it. I am going to price out Var and see how it works out for me. I think it is going to look pretty much like what King said:
Wks 1-22 Letrozole 1mg ED
Wks 4-16 Test E 250mg E3D (28 inj)
Wks 13-18 Anavar 50mg ED
Wks 13-18 1500mg Hawthorne Berry
Wks 4-18 10mg Nolva
Wks 18-22 20mg Nolva
Wks 18-22 Clomid (300/100/50)
Wks 18-22 1000mg Milk Thistle
Look good? Want to get this planned, purchased, and ready for September
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07-17-2004, 11:10 AM #35
Originally Posted by birsling
Letrozole can also be used 1 mg EOD
Greets
Kingofmasters
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07-17-2004, 11:13 AM #36
I like it. I don't see any purpose in dropping the Hawthorne. That is probaly the best heart protecting herb out there. I say take it everyday whether you are on or off cycle.
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07-17-2004, 11:28 AM #37
I am not too worried about the cost of the letro. Purchasing it in powder is a decent idea though, since I do own a very nice digi scale. Might just buy the research liquid anyway though. I am going to have to check out the var though. I definitely like the way it sounds. I would never drop the Hawthorne because it is a very cheap insurance policy. Thanks for all the help thus far.
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07-17-2004, 11:30 AM #38
Originally Posted by birsling
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