Frustrated

**txmusic** · 07-17-2004, 12:32 PM

I am looking for a good stack that isn't overly expensive. I have lifted weights off and on for about 15 years, but never seen the results I want. I've supplemented with protein, creatine, and glutamine, but I'm looking for something to help push me to the next level. I don't want to result to illegal steroids , but I'm getting desperate so I'm thinking that at least some sort of testosterone boosting stack would help. Any suggestions? I know there's probably several posts on here with the same question so even if someone could point me in that direction I would appreciate it. I just didn't want to have to sort through 100's of posts to find an answer. Please help!

Thanks,
Chris

**Latimus** · 07-17-2004, 12:39 PM

you mean you dont want to look through any...they are all over the place bro

**anaBROLIC** · 07-17-2004, 12:40 PM

sorting through 100s of posts is what you really should be doing.. nobody here is going to know your goals and what youd like to achieve.. by researching out what each AS is used for and comparing other peoples goals with what you want to achieve is the way you will find out the best for you.. dont jump into anything, and bookmark this site.. u will be able to find all your answers...

**JoeB** · 07-17-2004, 01:40 PM

Keep your first cycle simple. Search for "first cycle" or something like that.

**txmusic** · 07-17-2004, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the info. I know I probably sound lazy by saying that I don't want to look through 100's of quotes, but it's just that I've seen SOOO many ads out there for this stack and that stack.... I just don't want to be wasting my money. I will take your advice though and start searching through these posts.

Thanks!

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:00 PM

First cycles usually consist of just 500mg/wk of Test E for 10 weeks followed by PCT.

**Lozgod** · 07-17-2004, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by txmusic

Thanks for the info. I know I probably sound lazy by saying that I don't want to look through 100's of quotes, but it's just that I've seen SOOO many ads out there for this stack and that stack.... I just don't want to be wasting my money. I will take your advice though and start searching through these posts.

Thanks!

These posts aren't adds, they are mostly comprised of knowledge and experience.

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:06 PM

ADS? That is funny and naive at the same time.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:09 PM

The bottom line is (unless you were blessed with being a genetic freak, which you don't sound like you were) nothing you can take over-the-counter will even hold a candle to the real deal. I think after researching, you might find that when administered properly, steroids are not as bad as society tries to make them....but that's for you to decide. I've been the natural/supplement route and you just end up spending more money on stuff that won't give you the results that you are looking for. I personally recommend a test only cycle for your first, although most people don't retain very much of their gains. In the end you will end up with more than you started with. It sounds like you have invested the time, so you should have your exercises down by now. Just realize that there is a lot of research that should accompany the use of AS. Until you know terms like PCT, clomid, nolvadex , aspirate , etc..... you still have research to do. And yes, no offense but you can't be that lazy.....RESEARCH. Hope your not that lazy in the gym....LOL

**txmusic** · 07-17-2004, 02:11 PM

Thanks Demon Deacon. Pardon my stupidity, but I've very new to this. Test E is Testosterone Enanthate ? And what is PCT? Do I need to take anything else along with this? Other than the basics like protein, and others. I was reading an article that said there are a few things to take to counter the side effects. Here's what they suggested.

500 mg testosterone per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25 mg)
1 quater tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25 mg)
1 tablet of clomid every other day (50 mg)
320 mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Does this sound reasonable?

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:13 PM

No, more research is needed. Read the forum posts. Not the main page of steroid .com. The posts by other members are more of a help. You really need to know what PCT is.

**txmusic** · 07-17-2004, 02:18 PM

Thanks for the input j.r.w. That definitely helps. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm not blessed with great genetics at all and I don't want to look like Dorian Yates, but I would like to put on some noticeable lean muscle. I have wasted a lot of money on all of the over the counter stuff at GNC and elsewhere and it did very little to help. I have done quite a bit of research on weight lifting itself so I feel pretty confident about my routines and exercises, but it's frustrating to bust my tail in the gym for 8 to 12 weeks and people around me don't even notice it. My next question.... If I do decide to go with the real stuff does it have to be done by injections or are there pills that have close to the same results? Remember that I'm not looking to get into competition by any means, just over my plateau.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:21 PM

Never do pill only cycles. I'll give you a good first cycle (in my opinion)......

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:31 PM

The problem with pill only cycles is that they won't give you the results you deserve-to be putting something in your body that isn't great for you. (Most) pills are harder on your body. They are harder on your liver (do the research on this). If you are going to be putting something like AS in your body, you might as well get the most results from the safest method. You don't have to be a pro body builder to enjoy the rewards of AS. You just don't have to do as much as they do, keeping the negative side effects extremely lower. Here's a good first cycle (IMO)..... anyone can feel free to critique this.

Week 1-2 Test E (250mg)
Week 3-12 Test E (500mg)
Week 3-13 Nolvadex (10-20mgs)
Week 14 (day 1)- 300mg clomid; 100mgs for next 10 days; 50 mgs for next 10 days.

You might also consider some liquidex @ .25mg/day (week 3-12) to help reduce water retention.

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:31 PM

I am now officially staying out of this thread. TX. You are asking all questions that can easily be found using the search button. Normally i like to help whoever I can but i can tell that you have not read anyone elses posts and probably dont know where the search button even is. But good luck. Hope everything works out.

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:32 PM

JRW you want him to taper up the Test E? No tapering necessary.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:33 PM

But you should take the time to verify or contradict the info. I or anyone gives you. I did the research and this is what I came up with, but some people may agree or disagree.

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:36 PM

There is no need to Taper. When you cycle you want to keep your blood levels stable. Tapering does not help you do this it actually hurts it. I would also run nolvadex from the get go. Remember the nolvadex also has to get a blood level built up in which case it looks like it wont be built up until week 4, while the test e will be kicking in around the 3rd week.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:37 PM

The reason I put that is I believe in starting with a low dosage (not for tapering perposes, but to see how his body will react). Theoretically, this should be safe to jump right into, but you never know how someone's body will react. Also, he needs to learn about aspirating the syringe. A half a ml would be not as bad to inject into a vein as a full ml. Hopefully neither occur......LEARN TO ASPIRATE PROPERLY. I'm not going to tell you this one. Look it up, I did the rest. Good luck.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:39 PM

Also, I didn't start the nolvadex out at week one because of the low dose of test, but it could be done just to be on the safe side.

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 02:40 PM

Hes not going to know how his body is going to react until the middle perhaps end of the third week. You have him upping the dosage at the beginning of the week. By this point he will not know just yet how he is reacting and would have already put in the 500mg injection. Its a bad idea, there is no need for it, and it will compromise his blood levels.

**Froggy** · 07-17-2004, 02:47 PM

Try some test prop @ 50mg ed. Also need arimidex , nolvadex & clomid. We gonna have us some fun!!!! enjoy!!!!

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:47 PM

Your body can have a bad reaction a few seconds after doing a shot (if done improperly, some physical and some mental) and after a few days due to BP issues. But do what you want. As far as the blood levels, he's going up and not down so it would be a bit of a slower start, but with the long half life of test, I don't really understand how this would be hurting him....just not going to react as fast. Keep in mind, I didn't say that these reactions were the norm, but stranger things have happened. I think he should see how he is going to react (physically and mentally), at a lower dose.

**j.r.w.** · 07-17-2004, 02:50 PM

edited above post.

**txmusic** · 07-17-2004, 03:06 PM

Demon Deacon, I completely understand where you're coming from and I apologize. I should have done more research first and I realize that now. There IS a lot to learn! Whew!!! But this has been very helpful. I'm just the kind of person that once I make my mind up to do something, I want to get started right then. I decided that I was going to make the commitment to get back into the gym and I have a little money to spend on supplements so I was just anxious to get started right away. I now realize that I need to read more of the posts and do more research. Thanks a million for your input though!

**Demon Deacon** · 07-17-2004, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by txmusic

Demon Deacon, I completely understand where you're coming from and I apologize. I should have done more research first and I realize that now. There IS a lot to learn! Whew!!! But this has been very helpful. I'm just the kind of person that once I make my mind up to do something, I want to get started right then. I decided that I was going to make the commitment to get back into the gym and I have a little money to spend on supplements so I was just anxious to get started right away. I now realize that I need to read more of the posts and do more research. Thanks a million for your input though!

Thats what i like to see. When you have a cycle all figured out feel free to post or pm me with it. I will be glad to help either way.