how much test is enough for goals, still lots of opinions?

**redwizza** · 07-18-2004, 10:32 AM

ok today especially alot of us are talking about the importance of testosterone in every cycle, but question still remains....how much is enough for your specific needs and goals and stack? of course in theory the more the better, but we cant take the aromatizing effects of test very lightly either....(lets just say that these days im seing more guys with bitch tits than ever before!). let me just simplify it and give an example of a possible lean cycle: what if the total test free non aromatizing anabolics/androgens (fina, winny, var, eq maybe) u r using totals 600mg per week, and goal of the cycle is to gain lean mass, no additional water/fat retention...how much of test would you do for teh sake of the overall goals? consider this also, lets say anti estrogens CANT play a role in this cycle for, umm, whatever reason?

**somedude247** · 07-18-2004, 10:35 AM

I'm running 750 mg per week right now..excellent gains in weight and strength so far with no side effects..I was thinking of upping the dosage to over 1000 mg, but i've read it only maximizes the side effects when doing so...my opinion is anywhere from 500 mg to 750 mg is good enough for the average user.

**Money Boss Hustla** · 07-18-2004, 10:38 AM

500mg wasn't enough for me. 750 is where I'm at too.

However, I would highly suggest that you find out your proper dosing yourself. No one can tell you how you will react to test. Start at a 500mg EW cycle. If you don't get gains then think about jumping dosage. You're also going to have to guage your anti-e's. We all recommend doses...but you have to tweak the doses according to how your body reacts to test.

**MrDezel** · 07-18-2004, 10:47 AM

It depends on the person. I feel that you can build a resistance up to test over time and that you have to start to do more and more over time to see good results.

**redwizza** · 07-18-2004, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla

500mg wasn't enough for me. 750 is where I'm at too.

However, I would highly suggest that you find out your proper dosing yourself. No one can tell you how you will react to test. Start at a 500mg EW cycle. If you don't get gains then think about jumping dosage. You're also going to have to guage your anti-e's. We all recommend doses...but you have to tweak the doses according to how your body reacts to test.

reason im asking (by the way thank you for the replies) is becasaue ive done a few cycles now always including test so far....and i have always, so far, used test around 500-583mg pw...never went over that (in 4 cycles), but always used it with deca /dbol /fina/proviron dosed around 350-550mg pw. so far every cycle was excellent although defenitally not perfectly executed, BUT...i always bloated during the cycles like a mofo, sometimes i tried clomid, nolva, arimidex , but to no avail! now for my last cycle, i did test/low dose deca/alittle bit winny at the end with proviron. went from 175 pounds 13.4% fat, to 205 pounds in the last weeks, at also around 13% fat. although i looked leaner- becasue of the lean weight increases relative to the small fat gain - but i was still bloated. used test at 585mg pw (omna every 3 days). so what if i try half that dose of say test propionate (consider the fact that mg to mg - because of its short ester - the prop has more test in it)?

**Money Boss Hustla** · 07-18-2004, 11:01 AM

Omna is known for for bloat. So is deca and dbol .

Run test prop at 75mg ED then.

**redwizza** · 07-18-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by MrDezel

It depends on the person. I feel that you can build a resistance up to test over time and that you have to start to do more and more over time to see good results.

see thats another issue....and so what if....what if i maintain an even/unchanging dose of test every cycle, based on my comfort zone with it, and just increase other anabolics/androgens to take with the test supplementation? my zone, ive determined based on my cycles so far, would probably be around 350-525 mg of short estered propionate pw, and around 500-600mg of test enanthate /cypionate ...ect.

**smagdy** · 07-18-2004, 11:06 AM

i took 750 sus 1.5 yrs ago n i had gr8 gains with very bad side effects... i had dirty look of acne over my both shoulders it made me hate my life... now with 250test i have good gains... and i really belive low doses are best but no one can be patient for the low doses!!

**redwizza** · 07-18-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by somedude247

I'm running 750 mg per week right now..excellent gains in weight and strength so far with no side effects..I was thinking of upping the dosage to over 1000 mg, but i've read it only maximizes the side effects when doing so...my opinion is anywhere from 500 mg to 750 mg is good enough for the average user.

are you using any anti's?

**somedude247** · 07-18-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by redwizza

are you using any anti's?

Using 750 mg a week, I have nolva on hand

**BeefCakeStew** · 07-18-2004, 11:23 AM

It also depend on the ester too. For instance, "you have to remember that the ester is going to add more weight to the molecule. The larger the ester the less base steroid there is going to be in a 100mg steroid ester. You can use the following chart to figure this out:

Mg of Testosterone
Testosterone (no ester)
C19 H28 O2 288.4 100mg
Acetate
C2 H2 O 42.1 87.26mg
Propionate
C3 H4 O 56.1mg 83.72mg
Enanthate *
C7 H12 O 112.2mg 71.99mg
Cypionate
C8 H4 O 124.2mg 69.90mg
Decanoate
C10 H18 O 154.3mg 65.15mg

When the ester molecular weight is considered 500mg of prop made from .5g of USP powder has 418mg of test. Whereas, .5g of Enan has 359mg of Test. 59mg might not seem like too much but it will make a difference when you start getting into 700mg or more--about 83mg could make a difference. Just by looking at the weight there's no question as to why Susp kicks A$$, aside from the fact it hits the sytem almost instantaneously. Just my .02 tho.

molecular weight from
http://www.bodybuilding-tips.net/s32/t412.html

**BeefCakeStew** · 07-18-2004, 11:34 AM

As for goals. Test E at 500mg week worked in helping me gain lean mass. Which really was 359mg of test if you look at the molecular weights. So I wouldn't say that was too harsh. Ill stick with that until I dont see any more gains.

However, if you really want to be minimalistic. You can use test at 100mg a week to replace endogenous hormones and run other compounds to achieve the results you wish. But if I am going to run any compound, test is going to be on the high side of the ratio because I like what it has to offer--libido, sense of well being, increased protein synthesis ect.. I Dont advocate using it at lower doses but, tho others may disagree, I think it is do able without seeing too many negatives from doing it that way.