I'm really new and I should have read this first but...

**Jmatt_8** · 07-19-2004, 11:15 AM

Hello all

I found this board after searching for information on Steroid use and dosages.

I started using androgel 25mg approximately 2 weeks ago. The dosage I get is 10 percent of the gel so I'm taking 2.5 mg per day.

After reading the new users information I didn't see anthing about the gel.

Is it possible at this low a dosage to not get the gyno mentioned and still build decent muscle. I have been lifting weights off and on for almost 20 years. I was hoping that the androgel 25mg would help me shed some fat around my waist and help me build some muscle at the same time.

Any more information about this gel would be helpful. I have started to get headaches over the last two weeks and I'm not headache prone. This leads me to believe that I may be in for a downfall when I quit.

I can get this product at my leasure and have no idea how long I should use it. I wish I would have read the page before I started.

Thank you for your consideration and please don't beat me up to bad for being new and/or a moron.

jmatt

**hung-solo** · 07-19-2004, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jmatt_8

Hello all

I found this board after searching for information on Steroid use and dosages.

I started using androgel 25mg approximately 2 weeks ago. The dosage I get is 10 percent of the gel so I'm taking 2.5 mg per day.

After reading the new users information I didn't see anthing about the gel.

Is it possible at this low a dosage to not get the gyno mentioned and still build decent muscle. I have been lifting weights off and on for almost 20 years. I was hoping that the androgel 25mg would help me shed some fat around my waist and help me build some muscle at the same time.

Any more information about this gel would be helpful. I have started to get headaches over the last two weeks and I'm not headache prone. This leads me to believe that I may be in for a downfall when I quit.

I can get this product at my leasure and have no idea how long I should use it. I wish I would have read the page before I started.

Thank you for your consideration and please don't beat me up to bad for being new and/or a moron.

jmatt

have you done a search for the andrgel. thats step #one. personally i have never heard of it. i would do a search and figure it out quickly.. lesson learned.. good luck

**Demon Deacon** · 07-19-2004, 11:19 AM

You can easily obtain anti-estrogens to prevent gyno from research sites. They are very easy to find but there is a no source policy on this board so i cant lead you to one. But you can buy those and they are cheap. Make sure to get clomid as well to get your natural test levels back up when you stop the gel.

**BlocRoc** · 07-19-2004, 11:21 AM

I've tried it a few years back, and was never satisfied with it at all. But that may be just me.

I dont think that I ever came across anyone that had anything to say that great about it either..

The topical gel thing method is never the best way to use anabolics... So you should consider getting over the fear of needles (IT REALLY doesnt hurt at all) and consider other options.

BUT FIRST...

How about some stats. Weight, diet, training exp, all that good stuff that we all want to hear about.

L8

**Jmatt_8** · 07-19-2004, 11:36 AM

Thank you for responding I didn't realize people were actively reading this board.

I'm am a 42 yo male 5'10" and I weigh 207 lbs. Two years ago I was diagnosed as having hypothyroidism and have been taking approximately .125 mg tyroxine daily.

I suck really bad about taking my thyroid medicine. I forget to take it at least three times a week.

I live in Africa and I just found the topical stuff. I have asked about testosterone but everyone here speaks French in the pharmacy. I brought a printout from a web page to a local pharmacy and they came right up with the androgel . They didn't have the 50 mg gel packs so I took the 25's.

**Jmatt_8** · 07-19-2004, 11:40 AM

Training.

I'm just getting back into training. I'm not even over the soreness. I 1999 I had my best year. Personal best on bench was 255 for two reps and squates were around 275. I have really bad for squating so I prefer a smith machine to squat under so I can keep my back parallel.

Right now I'm in my second week of doing the mellinium workout from mens fitness. The workout that brought me to me personal best 4 years ago.

I have been weight lifting since I was 20 and running. I had a blood clot occur from an injury in 1997 and I am over it now. Last year in Aug I tore my ACL and my medial tendon in a tug of war contest. I have not had the surgery but have been rehabilitating my leg on my own. I surf regularly but I have a long way to go on the knee getting better.

**Jmatt_8** · 07-19-2004, 11:45 AM

I did read about androgel before I purchased it. It is for testosterone replacement . I didn't know the dosages for body building and saw some of the suggested or mock scenarios of 100mg / week for deca .

It appears at 2.5 mg of absorbtion I would have to smear the entire months worth in a week and that would amount to 400.00 a month.

**map200uk** · 07-19-2004, 12:58 PM

hey mate, there's always people actively reading the board on ar

ive read up on androgel and as you said only 10% gets absorbed so of 25mg only 2.5mg makes it through, not nearly enough for bodybuilding use, 250mg is a low dose and thatd require 2500mg of androgel to be applied, test is commonly used at 500mg /wk

and deca 100mg / wk is not enough imo, unless just being used for joint reasons

**Jmatt_8** · 07-19-2004, 01:25 PM

I just reread the dosage. It is a 2.5g gel packet with 10% absorbtion, so it would be 25mg per day. Is that enough?

J

**BeefCakeStew** · 07-19-2004, 03:55 PM

25mg a day would give you about 175mg a week. You need at least 3x endongenous testosterone levels to see any significant results from suprahormone levels, so about 300mg. Low doses of 175mg would only result in a shut down of your own HTPA. Even with Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) , any small gains you see from those doses are likely to be lost during recovery.

Test isn't going to make you lose weight. When it is used for fat loss,it is used for its anticatabolic properties necessary to retain muscle during strict dieting and cardio.

Take some time and get back into lifting. Build a base for the muscle and strengthen your tendons naturally. Learn to eat right and keep a steady routine.

If you are still going through with this. Make sure you learn as much as you can about PCT as your HTPA will be shut down from the Hormone Replacment, which will cause a crash (depression, fatigue, muscle loss, ect..) after you cease the cycle.

**Jmatt_8** · 07-20-2004, 12:09 AM

I'll stop today and learn more.

Thanks. Shoud I even think about using it in higher dosages later on?

**MMC78** · 07-20-2004, 02:00 AM

2.5 mg of androgel a day is far below the average testosterone production for a normal healthy male (7-10mg/day). At that dose, it's probably just a waste of money.

**Jmatt_8** · 07-20-2004, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by MMC78

2.5 mg of androgel a day is far below the average testosterone production for a normal healthy male (7-10mg/day). At that dose, it's probably just a waste of money.

I actually messed up in my first writing of the dosages. It's a 2.5 gram gel pack containing 25 mg testosterone . This is directly from the Androgel web page

"A daily application of AndroGel™ 5 G, 7.5 G, or 10 G delivers 50 mg, 75 mg, or 100 mg of testosterone, respectively, per day, to the skin's surface. Approximately 10% of the applied testosterone dose is absorbed across skin of average permeability during a 24-hour period." The web page is

http://vidyya.com/archives/androgel.htm

When you read their quote do you get that of the 25mg only 10 percent of that is absorbed? That would be only 2.5mg. That's what I'm getting out of it. I had my testosterone messured a couple of months back and the doctor said it was in the normal range but occured in nanograms not milligrams.

One of the threads indicated that at least 500 mg / wk for a test. I fall woefully short on that amount. They do come in 100mg per application packets which would fall into the test range unless it is only 10 percent of 100mg.

Now that I have a little bit of knowledge under my belt I think I'll take the advice from Beefcakestew and get my eating and working out under control and learn more about the post cycle therapy .

This is a replacement hormone for daily use. I wonder since you guys are putting it in a needle and directly into your muscles once a week or so if that absorbtion is better than something applied once daily that claims that a person would have continuous testosterone available all day long.

I am going to have to follow up with a lot of reading. Thank all of you for your input.

jmatt

**Jmatt_8** · 07-20-2004, 04:35 AM

One more thing. Do you think that since I have been taking it for 10 continuous days I will have bad side effects from discontinuing it's use? Since it doesn't seem that it will be effective for what I want it to do it seems that it can only hurt me in the long run.

jmatt

**MMC78** · 07-20-2004, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jmatt_8

One more thing. Do you think that since I have been taking it for 10 continuous days I will have bad side effects from discontinuing it's use? Since it doesn't seem that it will be effective for what I want it to do it seems that it can only hurt me in the long run.

jmatt

Probably not. You may have slightly supressed your natural test production. If you're very paraniod about gyno you can run Nolva at 10-20mg/day for a couple of weeks after discontinuing your treatment. I don't think you have anything to worry about though.

To answer your other question, transdermal delivery methods are inferior compared to IM (intramuscular) injections.

As far as needing 500mg/week of endogenous test to see results, I don't agree. For a first cycle you can get away with doses in the 250-300mg/week range. Do a search for Bask8kase's threads to read about low/moderate dose cycles.