Low dose, short cycle help

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07-21-2004, 11:19 AM
Duke of Earl

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Low dose, short cycle help

Hey y'all-

I want to make SMALL high quality gains with as few sides as poss
Was gonna do a Tets prop /EQ/ Var cycle, but can't deal with ED Prop injections for so long
so what do yo think to a Test E / Eq / Var cycle something like....

1-12 Test E (same / similar dose as Eq)
1-12 Eq
8-15 Anavar 50mg ED
16-19 Clomid PCT
(nolva / finasteride throughout)

Possibly 13-15 Test prop 75mg EOD (just to bridge till PCT)
(Would try Primo instead of Eq, but paranoid about fakes)

1. What do you think the LOWEST Test / Eq doses that would show ANY result?
2. Whats the SHORTEST time I could condense this cycle to?
3. How would a lower Test/Eq dose affect my PCT timings?
4. Any thoughts on if / when to throw some clen in?

This is my first (injectable) cycle
32yrs, 6''2, 190lbs, BF not exactly sure but 'a healthy average'
Training properly for 4 years
Clean diet, lifting Heavy low reps

Target 195 lbs with lower BF

My priorities are (in order)
1. Low Sides (esp Hair loss!!- not so bothered about decreased libido during)
2. Lean gains (doesn't have to be loads of mass, just wanna keep gains & avoid the bloat)
3. Keep cycle length to a minimum (not very important really)

Thanks for your help..
07-21-2004, 11:21 AM
Money Boss Hustla

First cycle? Simple 500mg test enanthate EW. No need to start stacking gear right off the start. It's best to see how you react to compounds separately ie) use test only, then next cycle add on EQ
07-21-2004, 11:23 AM
Money Boss Hustla

Whoops missed some stuff.

Run finasteride ED, as well as anti-e's. If you do want bloat...add 0.25mg Adex...plus use 10mg Ndex ED.
07-21-2004, 11:23 AM
w_rballs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla

First cycle? Simple 500mg test enanthate EW. No need to start stacking gear right off the start. It's best to see how you react to compounds separately ie) use test only, then next cycle add on EQ

i agree with money. but if u want to use some prop u could do this
1-4 prop 75mg/ed
1-12 enanthate 500/week

pct 2 weeks after last shot of enanthate
07-21-2004, 11:27 AM
Money Boss Hustla

Could use prop at the end too.
07-21-2004, 11:27 AM
hung-solo

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman

Hey y'all-

I want to make SMALL high quality gains with as few sides as poss
Was gonna do a Tets prop /EQ/ Var cycle, but can't deal with ED Prop injections for so long
so what do yo think to a Test E / Eq / Var cycle something like....

1-12 Test E (same / similar dose as Eq)
1-12 Eq
8-15 Anavar 50mg ED
16-19 Clomid PCT
(nolva / finasteride throughout)

Possibly 13-15 Test prop 75mg EOD (just to bridge till PCT)
(Would try Primo instead of Eq, but paranoid about fakes)

1. What do you think the LOWEST Test / Eq doses that would show ANY result?
2. Whats the SHORTEST time I could condense this cycle to?
3. How would a lower Test/Eq dose affect my PCT timings?
4. Any thoughts on if / when to throw some clen in?

This is my first (injectable) cycle
32yrs, 6''2, 190lbs, BF not exactly sure but 'a healthy average'
Training properly for 4 years
Clean diet, lifting Heavy low reps

Target 195 lbs with lower BF

My priorities are (in order)
1. Low Sides (esp Hair loss!!- not so bothered about decreased libido during)
2. Lean gains (doesn't have to be loads of mass, just wanna keep gains & avoid the bloat)
3. Keep cycle length to a minimum (not very important really)

Thanks for your help..

i agree with hustla, but nice job puting this together. looks like you did your homework. thats always good to see. this would be a great third cycle or so. the only thing i would change would be , dont mess with the prop, and the var from week 7-14. to match up a little with the pct.. this will be a good first cycle look below

1-12wk test e 500mg every week shoot mon and thurs
1-12wk nolva at 10mg ed
12-pct nolva at 20mg ed
**if you can get femara or ldex go for it, it will help with the bloat

pct=clomid, nolva and maybe some clen too

good luck and later
07-21-2004, 11:33 AM
Duke of Earl

My angle on this stack is that I can keep the test ( & hence DHT ) to a minimum, & still get some gains, by putting something else ( hair friendly !) like Eq in the mix.....?

I've been taking finasteride (with nizoral) for 4 years so thats nothing new...... was thinking about moving to Avodart (dutasteride) during cycle

As you can tell I love my hair......but I do wanna get buff!

What do you think the lowest effective dose of Test E/Eq would be?
07-21-2004, 11:33 AM
Duke of Earl

Ps thanks for the replies!!
07-21-2004, 12:59 PM
MMC78

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman

Hey y'all-

I want to make SMALL high quality gains with as few sides as poss
Was gonna do a Tets prop /EQ/ Var cycle, but can't deal with ED Prop injections for so long
so what do yo think to a Test E / Eq / Var cycle something like....

1-12 Test E (same / similar dose as Eq)
1-12 Eq
8-15 Anavar 50mg ED
16-19 Clomid PCT
(nolva / finasteride throughout)

Possibly 13-15 Test prop 75mg EOD (just to bridge till PCT)
(Would try Primo instead of Eq, but paranoid about fakes)

1. What do you think the LOWEST Test / Eq doses that would show ANY result?
2. Whats the SHORTEST time I could condense this cycle to?
3. How would a lower Test/Eq dose affect my PCT timings?
4. Any thoughts on if / when to throw some clen in?

This is my first (injectable) cycle
32yrs, 6''2, 190lbs, BF not exactly sure but 'a healthy average'
Training properly for 4 years
Clean diet, lifting Heavy low reps

Target 195 lbs with lower BF

My priorities are (in order)
1. Low Sides (esp Hair loss!!- not so bothered about decreased libido during)
2. Lean gains (doesn't have to be loads of mass, just wanna keep gains & avoid the bloat)
3. Keep cycle length to a minimum (not very important really)

Thanks for your help..

Just keep it simple, stick to a single compound for your first cycle:
1-10: Prop 75-100mg EOD
Run anavar at the beginng or end.

With finasteride you shouldn't experience much hairloss at all.

If you're just shooting prop, you can quickly bail out of the cycle if sides become a problem.
07-21-2004, 01:33 PM
w_rballs

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC78

Just keep it simple, stick to a single compound for your first cycle:
1-10: Prop 75-100mg EOD
Run anavar at the beginng or end.

With finasteride you shouldn't experience much hairloss at all.

If you're just shooting prop, you can quickly bail out of the cycle if sides become a problem.

if he should stick to a single compound, dont tell him to throw var in the mix. no flame just letting ya know
07-21-2004, 01:50 PM
KAEW44

if your test e is 250mg/ml you could do 0.75ml monday and thursday giving you a total of 375mg a week, test-e takes a few weeks to kick in , i think thats why people get impatient and think more is needed! i personally stick to the small group that strongly believe all cycles are over dosed, and its proven that great bodybuilders of the 80's used one third to one half of what beginners/amateurs are using today, and back then they managed to get great results! go to the pictures and cycle results forum and look up a guy called bask8case who got great results and did it with lower dosages, and i men great results!! just good diet man! steroids arent muscles in a bottle so more is not always better.
07-21-2004, 03:01 PM
Money Boss Hustla

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAEW44

if your test e is 250mg/ml you could do 0.75ml monday and thursday giving you a total of 375mg a week, test-e takes a few weeks to kick in , i think thats why people get impatient and think more is needed! i personally stick to the small group that strongly believe all cycles are over dosed, and its proven that great bodybuilders of the 80's used one third to one half of what beginners/amateurs are using today, and back then they managed to get great results! go to the pictures and cycle results forum and look up a guy called bask8case who got great results and did it with lower dosages, and i men great results!! just good diet man! steroids arent muscles in a bottle so more is not always better.

I am going to have to challenge you on this. Just b/c low doses work for you and bask8case...doesn't mean they will work for everyone. I personally have to take 750mg EW to start seeing gains. It has nothing to do with being impatient...it's just that I respond differently to AS. duckman may not respond very well to 375mg...and I don't think most people would. Plus they will shut their boys down...and for what!? Minimal gains? Starting at 375mg is a waste IMHO. I would recommend at least 500mg EW. People who respond to low doses are the minority in the AS world. If low doses are the shiznit why would anyone inject more than they have too? It's not being very efficient and effective is it!? I think the gains people get from low doses are due to them just starting out into weightlifting. People never follow a workout routine...but as soon as they start using gear...they become diligent. IMHO, these people would have seen similar gains by staying natural and being diligent with their training, sleeping, and eating.

Duckman...keep doing your homework (good job so far) and make an informed decision on what you think will work for you. What works for one may not work for another. We are our own guinea pigs at times. Trial and error.

Just my .02 :cheers: