First Cycle (Deca/ Dbol)

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 01:18 AM

Hi,
This is my very first proper cycle (although I have done pro-hormones before)and I want to be 100% sure before I start it, so I wandered if anyone had any opinions on my dosages, and in particular my PCT. I am still a little unsure as to when is the best time to start taking clomid.
I have done a lot of research and this is the best I have come up with:

My stats are:
Age 24
170lbs
5ft 10
11% bodyfat
lifting for 2+ years

Week

1 200mg Deca
2 200mg Deca
3 300mg Deca
4 300mg Deca /20md D’bol a day
5 400mg Deca /30md D’bol a day
6 300mg Deca /40md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
7 200mg Deca /30md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
8 /20mg D’bol a day/40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
9 / 40mg Nolva / 150mg Clomid a day
10 40mg Nolva / 100mg clomid a day
11 50mg clomid a day
12 50mg clomid a day

13 zma + Tribulus

N.B First day of clomid therapy = 300mg

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers
G

**slitsoul13** · 07-22-2004, 01:21 AM

..... no that is bad, u should do a test only first cycle or a test + dbol / or test + deca . and dbol needs to be run the first 4 weeks for a kickstart until test kicks in. clomid 2 weeks after last test shot. 300 first day / 100 10 days / 50 10 days. run 20mg nolva ed. thru out cycle. and if u run deca/test u need to have +100mg more of test and run it longer

**MS421** · 07-22-2004, 01:35 AM

Yeah I wouldnt recommend this cycle. I completely agree with slitsoul, test should be the base for all your cycles and you wanna start off with the dbol , not end with it. Also it looks like you're running a 7 week cycle with 4 or 5 weeks of PCT?

**slitsoul13** · 07-22-2004, 01:37 AM

run test for 10-12 weeks.

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 01:38 AM

I am finding that different web sites are giving me different results, and leaving me confused.

i was told that deca /d'bol was a very good stack for a begginer? and test should be avoided until at leat the 2nd cycle

i do have some sustanon - could i run that with the deca or d'bol?

what do you think?

**slitsoul13** · 07-22-2004, 01:59 AM

well, your sex drive will not exist if u do deca w/o test, some disagree. i think u need test if u use deca so ur sex drive doesnt go down / balls wont shrink.

**quez82** · 07-22-2004, 02:02 AM

Well cycles are about trial and error...I must say this is a trial..and you will have a big error in this cycle..

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 02:11 AM

yeah i have heard about deca dick etc - but to be honest i can live with no sex drive for a couple of months if its gonna give me good gains

is this the only problem associated with this stack? or are there more serious issues?

in response to MS421, it is an 8 week cycle but yes i was planning on doing 4 weeks clomid cos i'm worried about loosing gains during PCT

not too sure about it now i have heard your responses though
if i was to do this combination - i will be taking your advise and doing the d'bol at the start of the cycle

as it stands i have enough deca + d'bol for my above cycle + an additional 9 amps of sust (250mg per amp)

what do you think i should do?

cheers for the quick responses by the way

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by quez82

Well cycles are about trial and error...I must say this is a trial..and you will have a big error in this cycle..

looks like i did the right thing in consulting the board before i started it
i want to be 100% sure before i start anything

**iNvid** · 07-22-2004, 02:18 AM

This is sorta odd. In the anabolics 2004 book, it stats a deca /dbol cycle for a first timer. No where does it mention test. But as soon as you go online, its all about test for your first cycle. Guess people just have different perspectives.

**MS421** · 07-22-2004, 02:20 AM

A friend of mine just started a similar cycle, sust 250 a week, deca 600 a week, and he is not satisfied at all. Sust needs to be shot eod and isnt recommended at all for a 1st cycle. See if you can swap the deca for test or the sust for test and then run the test and dbol . But you should run it 10-12 weeks in either case. Believe me my friend is kicking himself in the ass for not taking everyones advice when he got it. Your PCT looks good tho.

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 03:12 AM

i agree with "invid" - there is so much different advice floating around that u end up even more confused.

MS421 - why was you friend not happy with sust/ deca stack?

if it is recommended that you take test with deca or dbol how come sust isnt recommended, considering that it contains 4 different test's?

**craneboy** · 07-22-2004, 05:57 AM

throw in some test and dont piramid

**ripsid** · 07-22-2004, 06:15 AM

The base of a cycle and from most accounts should always be TEST! If you ran a test only cycle at let's say 500mg a week for 12 weeks, you'd have just awesome gains. If you are in love with the deca the do a test/deca/dbol like you said but run the test 12 weeks the deca 10. I front loaded my test like 800/800/800/600/600/400 through out with 300mg deca for my 1st cycle. I had a couple issues with my cycle that held me back but I still gained 20lbs, had kept them all until I had to leave the gym in march because of work bs.

Anyways, test test test! I wouldn't run deca/dbol ever, but that's me. There's evidence that a test only cycle for extended period of time you will gain more lean mass and lose fat even if you didn't lift, if you do lift you gain substantially. (I read a report in MD that stated this)

As quez82 said this looks like a failure... you don't want to have to deal with a unit that just doesn't work! And when you're on test

!

My .02, good luck and hope what ever choice you make works out for you.

SID

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 06:34 AM

ok, i am noticing a common theme here. test seems the way to go - i here test enth is the best one (but i also heard its very difficult to keep your gains from this?)

i still have two questions though?

1. why does everyone hate the d'bol deca stack and the web sites all say its the best combination for building bulk. what is so bad about this stack that the web sites havent told me? (apart from deca dick)

2. everyone seems to be advising test, but can i achieve the same results with sust?

**Maraxus** · 07-22-2004, 06:38 AM

1. Test should always be a base bro. You get an incredible feeling of well being from the test (at least in me) and the gains are just amazing bro. Build on the test, and go from there, run test 10-12 weeks. Also do not pyramid, keep a steady constant and even flow of anabolics in your system.

2. Sust is test homie

And good luck bro, you've come to the right place

**ripsid** · 07-22-2004, 06:45 AM

1st, you won't have troubles keeping gains from test enth. Test E, will make you hold water so you should get some arimidex or liquidex to help with that. When you complete your cycle and you're done you're pct you'll loose about 5lbs but that's water. All the mucle you've gained you'll keep if you maintain the proper diet and supplementation.

Many people have run a deca /dbol cycle, and many have had success on such a cycle. BUT it is well known that Test is the basis of all cycles..the center point so to speak. A great cycle for you're 1st one for anyone is Test. I suggest a Test E of sust because you don't want to be a pin cushion on your 1st cycle. Trust me, the 1st time you sit there with pin in hand and you stick it in your quad/glute what ever, you're not going to want to do it again in another day. Go Test E sund/thursday or sat/wed and you'll be happy with what you get. YOu can run the test as much as 600mgs for 12 to 14 weeks and you'll be more than happy. If you want to run deca along with it you can, just run the deca at 10 weeks.

SID

**G-Force** · 07-22-2004, 06:57 AM

this is all good advice and i appreciate it.

not sure what i'm gonna do with all the gear i have at the moment though

actually to tell u the truth - i dont even have it yet, i ordered it off a web site and have just read that 99% of the websites are scammers, so i probably wont receive it anyway

i'm such a newbie

however when i do find a reliable source i will be getting test

**MS421** · 07-22-2004, 09:46 AM

Read this thread about sustanon by some very credible people

Sustanon and why you shouldnt use it

Take your time and do some more research before you start anything. A lot of guys on this site have a lot of experience and experience is worth more to me than any outdated literature you can find online or in a bookstore. Good luck getting your gear tho, unfortunatley you'll probably need it.

**THE PUMP** · 07-22-2004, 02:46 PM

ive seen sites that make there own cycles up and sell them and im not jokeing 99% would shut you down bad.

**G-Force** · 07-23-2004, 02:04 AM

mmm, its not easy getting to grips with all this steroid stuff is it?

i was so convinced i was doing the right thing with my deca /d'bol stack. and now it looks like sust is the wrong way to go for a beginner too. its just that the web sites recommend all the above for a first timer like me, so i ended up believing them, but i suppose they are more interested in boosting sales.

its difficult trying to find the right thing to do with all this conflicting information about - i read the thread on why u shouldnt do sust, but no doubt there are countless threads elsewhere on why u should.

but i am going to go with your advice and leaving the sust and d'bol alone for time being and will go with either a Test.E only cycle...or i may possibly throw in a bit of deca in aswell (if my order actually comes thru)

my cycle may look somethin like this

weeks 1 - 12 - test.e 500mg per week
weeks 1 - 10 - deca (not sure on dosage)

i notice most people say dont pyramid with test. do u not even need to taper down towards the end of the cycle to avoid a sudden crash?

should i still pyramid with the deca if i use it?

**KAEW44** · 07-23-2004, 02:12 AM

test/deca is a good cycle, i would check that PCT because its not right, you should run novadex at 20mg throughout the entire PCT.....

**Angelis** · 07-23-2004, 03:07 AM

Hey G-Force To start off a 12 week cycle Dianabol wouldnt be bad to use for the first 4 weeks just to start u off and as for tapering as long as u have a good PCT then you dont have to worry... Think Clomid you should take it 2 weeks after you stop your Test E and keep taking it for 3 weeks.You must also take 10-20mg per day of Nolvadex throughout ur cycle

**G-Force** · 07-23-2004, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Angelis

Hey G-Force To start off a 12 week cycle Dianabol wouldnt be bad to use for the first 4 weeks just to start u off and as for tapering as long as u have a good PCT then you dont have to worry... Think Clomid you should take it 2 weeks after you stop your Test E and keep taking it for 3 weeks.You must also take 10-20mg per day of Nolvadex throughout ur cycle

you think i should take nolva from day one of my cycle?

i was thinking of doing it for the last 2 or 3 weeks of my cycle and a further 2 weeks after

planning on taking clomid for 3 weeks after
do u think i could benefit from taking proviron aswell?

**ripsid** · 07-23-2004, 08:11 AM

Depending on your test dosage you won't need nolva, BUT HAVE IT JUST IN CASE! I would get liquidex and run that at .50ml ed to keep the water retention and it's also an anti-e. If you run the test/deca I'd run the test at a minimum of 500mg's and the deca at about 300 or so. run the test to week 12 and deca to 10. Or just run the test either one would be ok.
PCT do a search, and you'll find tons of info. I ran nolva 1 week after last inj and clomid I believe 2 weeks after last inj and ran nolva/clomid till end of clomid cycle.

Do a search and there are 1000's of answers on AR the test/deca is one of the most basic cycles and it's been brought up a hundred times. Look at the Diaries that have been posted to see what happens. I know I did a Diary and there's tons of other ones as well.

SID

**BUYLONGTERM** · 07-23-2004, 08:39 AM

OK, lets slow down here.....The good news is you didn't jump into it. Your doing your research. Like everyone has said, TEST is a must and should always be a base for a cycle. I can't tell you how many of my buddies did a DECA only cycle and were not pleased. It's not that you won't have sex for a few months, but you will have NO sex drive period. (hell, you won't be able to beat off if you want) Even if you don't have sex, you won't feel to good. DECA shuts you down hard. It's not fun. The great thing about this board is you have thousands of guys who not only know what their talking about, but have real life experiences.

Now, with proper PCT, you can keep most of your gains on a Test only cycle.

Some things you should know.....

First cycle should really be limited to one AS. The main reason behind this is if your running more than one, and run into issues, how are you going to know which steroid is giving you issues? Your first cycle is a learning process.

Just because you bought the wrong gear, does not mean YOU HAVE to run it. You can save it for your next cycle down the road. (trust me, you will run more than 1)

Never taper your doses. Keep them consistent. Stick with either Test Cyp or Enan. less injections.

Steroids are not a miracle drug. If your diet and training aren't perfected, don't expect that great of results.

I'd run a cycle like this...

Week 1-12 Test Enan 500mg EW (splitting the doses 250mg on Mon, 250mg on Thurs)
Nolva - 10mg ED
L dex - .25mg ED
PCT - Clomid (2 weeks after last test shot)

Remember, steroids is not a miracle drug. Don't try or think you will get huge on your first cycle. It's a process.

Keep researching, keep learning!!!

Best of luck,

BLT

**G-Force** · 07-23-2004, 09:06 AM

ok - i think the point about doing 1 AS to begin with is a good one - think i will most likely stick with 12 week test enth cycle 500mg throughout.

dont worry i have my diet and training in check, so i am almost set to go

i have never heard of liquidex, not do i know where to get it.

what about proviron ? no one has mentioned that? i have heard this is good when taken with nolva or clomid for hardening the muscles and reducing water retention

**kev** · 07-23-2004, 09:59 AM

i ran a similar cycle and i lost all my gains and got deca dick i felt like **** for weeks

**quez82** · 07-23-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

I am finding that different web sites are giving me different results, and leaving me confused.
i was told that deca /d'bol was a very good stack for a begginer? and test should be avoided until at leat the 2nd cycle

i do have some sustanon - could i run that with the deca or d'bol?

what do you think?

That is true..Every board is different...Every board has different people with different opinions...but hopefully they all are reletively close...Everyone experiences differently with steroids ..therefore you will get different opinions from mostly everyone...People have their own beliefs and as you get experienced with a steroid (s) you will find what works for you and what doesn't...we all react different...As someone said best ... take everything with a grain of salt...because we wont be making your ending decision...we can only give our own opinions, as well as do our best to help you out and steer you in the right direction...

**shorty33** · 07-24-2004, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

Hi,
This is my very first proper cycle (although I have done pro-hormones before)and I want to be 100% sure before I start it, so I wandered if anyone had any opinions on my dosages, and in particular my PCT. I am still a little unsure as to when is the best time to start taking clomid.
I have done a lot of research and this is the best I have come up with:

My stats are:
Age 24
170lbs
5ft 10
11% bodyfat
lifting for 2+ years

Week

1 200mg Deca
2 200mg Deca
3 300mg Deca
4 300mg Deca /20md D’bol a day
5 400mg Deca /30md D’bol a day
6 300mg Deca /40md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
7 200mg Deca /30md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
8 /20mg D’bol a day/40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
9 / 40mg Nolva / 150mg Clomid a day
10 40mg Nolva / 100mg clomid a day
11 50mg clomid a day
12 50mg clomid a day

13 zma + Tribulus

N.B First day of clomid therapy = 300mg

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers
G

I would run the deca for 10-12 weeks, but you gotta run some test with imo.
I would run the d-bol weeks 1-4 20mg to 40mg ed depending on your experience. IMO you would have much better gains if you add the test.
You use the d-bol at the start of your cycle to jump start it, until the test kicks in. Good luck

**shorty33** · 07-24-2004, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

Hi,
This is my very first proper cycle (although I have done pro-hormones before)and I want to be 100% sure before I start it, so I wandered if anyone had any opinions on my dosages, and in particular my PCT. I am still a little unsure as to when is the best time to start taking clomid.
I have done a lot of research and this is the best I have come up with:

My stats are:
Age 24
170lbs
5ft 10
11% bodyfat
lifting for 2+ years

Week

1 200mg Deca
2 200mg Deca
3 300mg Deca
4 300mg Deca /20md D’bol a day
5 400mg Deca /30md D’bol a day
6 300mg Deca /40md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
7 200mg Deca /30md D’bol a day /40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
8 /20mg D’bol a day/40mg Nolva /50mg Provironum a day
9 / 40mg Nolva / 150mg Clomid a day
10 40mg Nolva / 100mg clomid a day
11 50mg clomid a day
12 50mg clomid a day

13 zma + Tribulus

N.B First day of clomid therapy = 300mg

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers
G

You start pct 21 days after last injection of deca, 18 days after test cyp.

**larry3436** · 07-24-2004, 07:33 AM

im taking 500mgtestE/400mgDeca for first cycle...gained 30lbs so far in week ten.3 more weeks to go of test only.

also take 10mg nolva ED / .25mg l-dex ED.

**G-Force** · 07-24-2004, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by larry3436

im taking 500mgtestE/400mgDeca for first cycle...gained 30lbs so far in week ten.3 more weeks to go of test only.

also take 10mg nolva ED / .25mg l-dex ED.

not bad going mate

i will be doing a similar cycle soon, but ill probably leave it till after i've tried a test only cycle

**G-Force** · 08-13-2004, 06:23 AM

just wanted to let everyone know that i decided on test/dbol for my fist cycle. and am currently into my 2nd day. it looks like this:

weeks 1 - 12: Test. E - 500mg a week
weeks 1 - 4: D-Bol 30mg a day

i work in Nigeria for 6weeks at a time and have just started a 6 week trip only to find i had forgotten to pack my nolvadex so i am really worried about water retention - i dont want to end up looking all flat and puffy. i have it at home though and can start taking it from week 6 of my cycle. hopefully i will be ok.

I have clomid for pct aswell

one of my mates in the gym reckons i prob wont get much water retention on a first cycle - dont know how much of this is true as he also told me the test will kick in in a couple of days, and i originally read it was 4weeks (?)

**Angelis** · 08-13-2004, 07:08 AM

Test Prop would kick in in a couple day but Test Enth Will only kick in in about 2-4 weeks.... but I wouldnt recomned Prop for a first cycle

**G-Force** · 08-13-2004, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Angelis

Test Prop would kick in in a couple day but Test Enth Will only kick in in about 2-4 weeks.... but I wouldnt recomned Prop for a first cycle

why's that? more frequent injections?

**Paingain** · 08-13-2004, 11:43 AM

Dude, you dont care about your sex drive? I say reap the benefits of getting jacked and head out to the club to pick up some MILFS. Trust me, if you nail a chick when your on some test, she'll be calling your ass like clockwork.

**orange-juice** · 08-13-2004, 11:49 AM

I don't know why but all good online pharmacies are offshore... should this be an advantage? I mean they have the best prices on the market and shipping is very cheap... however it takes so much time to receive the order! I've ordered with www.jupiterpharmacy.com and www.anabolicsupplements.net and I wait almost two weeks... is there anybody who knows a US based pharmacy or at least one that can deliver faster?