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  1. #1
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    Stacking Anavar with what?

    Ok--been doing a lot of reading on the subject and I need some guidance.

    Hairloss and acne are a concern for me. AS a kid, i got really bad acne and was able to only get rid of it with Accutane.
    So that being said and now that I am 22, I decided on Anavar stacked with something. I'm leaning over towards, perhaps, 100mg test prop every other day. So I would be running var at 40mg a day for 8 weeks while the prop for 12 weeks.

    The only thing I dislike about prop is that it has to be injected so frequently so I was hoping I could get away with maybe injecting cyp once a week.. but then I am learning that test with a long esther means there is a higher potential for sides? Should I reconsider test all together? Run var alone?

    So far I have bought nizoral 2% and spiro 2%, so hopefully that should at least prevent hair loss.

    Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    mark956101957's Avatar
    mark956101957 is offline Anabolic Member
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    cyp would have to be injected E3D or E4D. You could go with cyp or test enanthate and with anti e's you would hopefully be OK

  3. #3
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    yeah i would go with test enth. with low doses the side would be little to none.if you are worried about your hair you could get some finastride.

  4. #4
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    As long as you keep your blood levels even then the sides will be minimal..... and this is with long or short acting esters.

  5. #5
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the really quick reply guys. Just some follow up questions:

    How long would you recommend I run test e for and what do you consider a low dose to be?

  6. #6
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    I would run no less than 400 to 500mg a week....... for 10 to 12 weeks

  7. #7
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    so if I ran 400 a week for 12 weeks, i should be ok with sides (Hopefully?)... obviously there is no garauntee.. I just wanna minimize these risks as much as possible (especially hairloss and acne)

    this along with anavar (40mg for 8 weeks), hopefully i'll see some good results

  8. #8
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggz
    so if I ran 400 a week for 12 weeks, i should be ok with sides (Hopefully?)... obviously there is no garauntee.. I just wanna minimize these risks as much as possible (especially hairloss and acne)
    That's the minimum I would run for test........ If you keep your blood levels steady, use anti-e's, run vitamin B5 (for acne) then you should be fine.

  9. #9
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggz
    so if I ran 400 a week for 12 weeks, i should be ok with sides (Hopefully?)... obviously there is no garauntee.. I just wanna minimize these risks as much as possible (especially hairloss and acne)

    this along with anavar (40mg for 8 weeks), hopefully i'll see some good results
    Include:
    10mg Nolvadex /day
    .125 - .25mg Liquidex/day
    1mg finasteride/day

    That will cover all of your bases for the sides you mentioned.

  10. #10
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    I have nolva, however, I thought I only needed to begin treatment if/when I began to develop gyno; otherwise, begin nolva during pct.

  11. #11
    Angelis's Avatar
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    no nolva is run through your entire cycle

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggz
    I have nolva, however, I thought I only needed to begin treatment if/when I began to develop gyno; otherwise, begin nolva during pct.
    Play it safe and run it at 10mg/day throughout your cycle. Excess estrogen can exacerbate hairloss.

  13. #13
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    Will do; thanks for the advice.

  14. #14
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    My personal opinion is that it seems like you are a person with oily scalp and skin, usually that is the condition if you had lot sof acne during your teens, also an oily scalp usually causes a lot of hairloss, its not permanent but is actually caused by the oil/dandruff/residue blocking your hair follicules and causing the hair to fall off.
    You might not be prone to male pattern baldness but just incase you are and you want to do a cycle and still prevent/minimize sides then this is how i would go...

    1)I personally would lower the test, i dont know your body weight or past expeience in bodybuilding but i am sure that you can get excellent results my doing less than 500mg a week of test-e. If you get test-e at 250mg/ml then you can do 0.75ml Monday and 0.75ml thursday for a total of 375mg a week while keeping your levels constant! that is 125mg less than what others recomend but it is still more than enough to get good anabolic results. Using Anavar will giv eyou a kickstart on strength and also giv you solid gains and vascularity.

    2) Nizoral 2% is probably good for you on and off cycle, it really strongly cleans the scalp leavin it clean and your hair free to breathe and grow. Dont expect miracle growth of new hair because Nizoral doesnt do that! it has some mild anti-androgenic properties and also hair thickening properties if used continously. It is a great addition to your hair product collection. Especially if you are doing test.

    3)Finasteride is a proven to work medication and FDA approved, but in ever study ever done it has only showed visible/significant results after over a year of continous use!! so if you are expecting to grow new hair then you better take it for as long a syou can. If however you just want to stop hairloss during a cycle then you need to start taking it one month at least before your cycle, that is so you body can start letting it work and start stopping DHT from being converted. And you need to continue it after a cycle as long as you can because the test effects can rebound even weeks after your cycle!

    4)Use an anti-bacterial liquid body wash like Dial or Lever, or even Neutragena. Dont use soaps with strong fragrances like old-spice or other commercial ones because they will seriously clog your pores causing more acne!!

    5)Take as many B vitamins as u can while on cycle because B6 can really help nourish you rhair and avoid hairloss, B5 for acne, and B12 is also good for many things including improving your appetite, get a b-complex or get them individually.

  15. #15
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    KAEW44--very informative post.

    Let me elaborate a bit more on my hair situation. I actually have very thick hair, which grows pretty quickly, so I don't believe that I am predisposed to hair loss--I also don't know of any close relatives who have lost their hair either. However, I have read countless threads on here of people who could have sworn they were not predisposed to hair loss and yet still lost hair on cycle. So I'm not trying to really grow hair, but rather keep it and take precautionary measurements in avoiding a loss.

    About the acne I suffered as an adolescent: It wasn't really bad, but it was persistent and stubborn and responded to no medication other than accutane. However, since I've ended my cycle with accutane some years ago, I haven't broken out once and I hope this cycle doesn't screw that up for me.

  16. #16
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    like you said yourself, nothing is for sure when it comes to sides, but you will want to attack from all angles in order to minimize them, go for the Nizoral 2% shampoo and also take the finasterids but i recomend research lab because it will be much cheaper, and for the acne like i told you man dont use harsh soaps on the body , just because they smell nicer doesnt mean they are better.

  17. #17
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAEW44
    My personal opinion is that it seems like you are a person with oily scalp and skin, usually that is the condition if you had lot sof acne during your teens, also an oily scalp usually causes a lot of hairloss, its not permanent but is actually caused by the oil/dandruff/residue blocking your hair follicules and causing the hair to fall off.
    You might not be prone to male pattern baldness but just incase you are and you want to do a cycle and still prevent/minimize sides then this is how i would go...
    Most people don't subscribe to the oil/sebum hypothesis for hairloss. Unfortunately snake oil companies like Nioxin use this to push product.

    Have you ever had an ingrown hair from shaving? If 7 layers of skin doesn't stop a hair from growing then I don't see how dirt and oil can.

    The rest of your advice is really solid. Finasteride/Minoxidil/Nizoral is a great combination for battling MPB.

  18. #18
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAEW44
    i am sure that you can get excellent results my doing less than 500mg a week of test-e. If you get test-e at 250mg/ml then you can do 0.75ml Monday and 0.75ml thursday for a total of 375mg a week while keeping your levels constant! that is 125mg less than what others recomend but it is still more than enough to get good anabolic results. Using Anavar will giv eyou a kickstart on strength and also giv you solid gains and vascularity.
    Is test e e3d or e3.5d/e4d? I thought it was the latter. I think I'm gonna do 375/week.. hopefully that's low enough to keep some sides down but enough to produce some results along with anavar

    So now i'm planning to do test e for weeks 1-12 and var @40mg for 6-15.. would i need hcg for pct or would nolva alone suffice? and does this schedule work--running anavar so it ends 2 weeks after ending test?
    Last edited by ziggz; 07-24-2004 at 12:48 PM.

  19. #19
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    anyone?

  20. #20
    woodiechopper is offline Associate Member
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    At 375/week and anavar , I don't think you're going to see a major effect, if that's what you want. At your age, your natural test should still be fairly high. The enanthate will top it up a little so you should gain a bit of muscle (I'm guessing 5lbs of muscle) and the anavar will strengthen you and keep you lean.

  21. #21
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    I'd only add 5lbs of muscle in the 12 and 8 weeks of test e and var? I was thinking/hoping more around 15lbs

  22. #22
    Matto20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggz
    I'd only add 5lbs of muscle in the 12 and 8 weeks of test e and var? I was thinking/hoping more around 15lbs
    Then tailor your diet so that you gain 15 instead of 5.

    Weight gain is about the calories you eat, not the cc's you inject.

    Good luck.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodiechopper
    At 375/week and anavar, I don't think you're going to see a major effect, if that's what you want. At your age, your natural test should still be fairly high. The enanthate will top it up a little so you should gain a bit of muscle (I'm guessing 5lbs of muscle) and the anavar will strengthen you and keep you lean.

    even at 22 high natural test lvls aren't really close to 375mg /wk, that is fine especially combined w/ var and ldex &/or nolva. I'd look for 15-20 depending on diet and dedication. This comes from personal experience as my first cycle was 300-350mg/wk and I gained over 20 lbs.

  24. #24
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortyrock13
    even at 22 high natural test lvls aren't really close to 375mg /wk, that is fine especially combined w/ var and ldex &/or nolva. I'd look for 15-20 depending on diet and dedication. This comes from personal experience as my first cycle was 300-350mg/wk and I gained over 20 lbs.
    Correct natural test levels are around 35-49mg /week. This does not reflect testosterone that isn't bound to SHBG and rendered useless.

  25. #25
    Consistency's Avatar
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    you should gain arounf 15 pounds, but of course this all depends on your diet

  26. #26
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    When I'm on cycle... should aim for a lot more than 1g protien per 1lb body weight? Also, how clean of a diet should it be? I would say most of my carbs already come from whole grains and my protiens from just plain old dry chicken and eggs.. some beef. Should I maintain all that? Should I eat a lot more carbs and does it matter if they're white or brown on cycle?

    From reading many other threads.. it seems like everyone has a different philoshpy and view on nutrition.. not sure which to follow.

    I appreciate everyone helping me out here... seems like I'm pretty much on the right track
    Last edited by ziggz; 07-27-2004 at 10:56 PM.

  27. #27
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    One more thing i forgot to ask:

    Since i'm ending var 2 weeks after I end test e (weeks 1-12 is test e and 6-14 var)

    Should I take nolva for an extended period of time than I would ordinarily do after ending the test e cycle since I won't be finished with var until two weeks later, or should I just run the nolva normally?

    Also, a lot of people told me to take 10mg nolva ed on cycle.. but then i'm reading contradicting threads that say to not take it until signs of gyno appear or until pct as it will hinder gains and that use of an aromatase inhibator is strongly recommended intead?

    Anyone have any suggestions what to do? Thanks.
    Last edited by ziggz; 07-27-2004 at 10:55 PM.

  28. #28
    ziggz is offline Junior Member
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    Still hoping someone has some words of advice for the questions posted above. Thanks

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggz
    When I'm on cycle... should aim for a lot more than 1g protien per 1lb body weight? Also, how clean of a diet should it be? I would say most of my carbs already come from whole grains and my protiens from just plain old dry chicken and eggs.. some beef. Should I maintain all that? Should I eat a lot more carbs and does it matter if they're white or brown on cycle?

    From reading many other threads.. it seems like everyone has a different philoshpy and view on nutrition.. not sure which to follow.

    I appreciate everyone helping me out here... seems like I'm pretty much on the right track
    Shoot for 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight. Try to stay reasonably clean. Avoid sugars (and high GI carbs) and saturated fat. Brown rice is better than whit rice. Outside of that you should try to pack in a lot of food daily.

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