nolva ed??

[dumblucky]

Ihave noticed that a lot of the cycles being posted lately have nolva being used every day..
while this is not a bad idea ..
perhaps something has changed, since I have been away from the boards for just a while..
but I was under the seeumption that using nolvadex did hamper gains while cycling. AS .and the only reason a person would use nolva ed is because he was prone to gyno ..
or perhaps its cause now nolva is redily available , when just a short while ago it was hard to come by and quite expensive
any thoughts??

[Mr. Death]

IMO nolva does not hinder gains. Using it every day is just a precaution against gyno whether you are prone for gyno or not.

[Soldier of Misfortune]

It shouldnt hinder gains, its an anti-E so it would only serve to help gains. Always keep it locked, cocked, and ready to rock if you feel your nips get itchy or puffy.

[Gear]

This is something I have been wondering about also as well lately. Whats the deal with Nolva getting in the way of getting gains? Is this bull****? Can some1 please clear this up? A scientific explenation would be good on why it is or is not good to use all throught a cycle.

[dumblucky]

how about this


Clin Endocrinol Metab 1994 Aug;79(2):513-8 Related Articles, Links


Estrogen receptor blockade with tamoxifen diminishes growth hormone secretion in boys: evidence for a stimulatory role of endogenous estrogens during male adolescence.

Metzger DL, Kerrigan JR.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville 22908.

The increase in GH production during the male adolescent growth spurt has been attributed to both androgen and estrogen receptor-mediated processes. To evaluate the role of endogenous estrogens in the control of GH secretion, we administered the estrogen receptor antagonist tamoxifen to 10 late pubertal males. Blood samples were obtained for GH determination at 10-min intervals on 2 occasions during the last 24 h of a 4-day course of either tamoxifen or placebo. Waveform-specific, multiple parameter deconvolution analysis was employed to assess GH secretory and elimination dynamics. Estrogen receptor blockade resulted in a significant (P < 0.05) diminution in mean 24-h serum GH concentrations, from 3.9 +/- 1.0 (placebo; mean +/- SEM) to 2.7 +/- 0.6 micrograms/L (tamoxifen). This was associated with a significant (P < 0.01) decline in the GH production rate [237 +/- 55 vs. 155 +/- 33 micrograms/L GH distribution volume (Lv).24 h]. Furthermore, this reduction in GH secretion was the result of significant decreases in both the maximal GH secretory rate (0.46 +/- 0.08 vs. 0.34 +/- 0.06 microgram/Lv.min; P < 0.01) and, to a smaller degree, GH secretory burst number (16 +/- 1 vs. 14 +/- 1/24 h; P < 0.05). There was also a trend toward reduced mass of GH secreted per burst (13.3 +/- 2.5 vs. 10.3 +/- 2.0 micrograms/Lv; P = 0.06). No significant alterations in either GH elimination t1/2 or GH secretory burst half-duration were observed during estrogen receptor antagonism.


Tamoxifen treatment was associated with a significant (P < 0.05) decrease in plasma insulin -like growth factor-I concentrations.

If you are not prone to gyno, there is no good reason to use tamoxifen during the cycle, IMO
pct is a difrent isssue

[Gear]

After reading that I agree with you totally dumblucky. Thanx for that, thats excatly what I was looking for.

[FB35]

any more thoughts?

[thejuiceisloose]

how about this


Clin Endocrinol Metab 1994 Aug;79(2):513-8 Related Articles, Links


Estrogen receptor blockade with tamoxifen diminishes growth hormone secretion in boys: evidence for a stimulatory role of endogenous estrogens during male adolescence.

Metzger DL, Kerrigan JR.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville 22908.

The increase in GH production during the male adolescent growth spurt has been attributed to both androgen and estrogen receptor-mediated processes. To evaluate the role of endogenous estrogens in the control of GH secretion, we administered the estrogen receptor antagonist tamoxifen to 10 late pubertal males. Blood samples were obtained for GH determination at 10-min intervals on 2 occasions during the last 24 h of a 4-day course of either tamoxifen or placebo. Waveform-specific, multiple parameter deconvolution analysis was employed to assess GH secretory and elimination dynamics. Estrogen receptor blockade resulted in a significant (P < 0.05) diminution in mean 24-h serum GH concentrations, from 3.9 +/- 1.0 (placebo; mean +/- SEM) to 2.7 +/- 0.6 micrograms/L (tamoxifen). This was associated with a significant (P < 0.01) decline in the GH production rate [237 +/- 55 vs. 155 +/- 33 micrograms/L GH distribution volume (Lv).24 h]. Furthermore, this reduction in GH secretion was the result of significant decreases in both the maximal GH secretory rate (0.46 +/- 0.08 vs. 0.34 +/- 0.06 microgram/Lv.min; P < 0.01) and, to a smaller degree, GH secretory burst number (16 +/- 1 vs. 14 +/- 1/24 h; P < 0.05). There was also a trend toward reduced mass of GH secreted per burst (13.3 +/- 2.5 vs. 10.3 +/- 2.0 micrograms/Lv; P = 0.06). No significant alterations in either GH elimination t1/2 or GH secretory burst half-duration were observed during estrogen receptor antagonism.


Tamoxifen treatment was associated with a significant (P < 0.05) decrease in plasma insulin -like growth factor-I concentrations.

If you are not prone to gyno, there is no good reason to use tamoxifen during the cycle, IMO
pct is a difrent isssue

**** now that has me thinking, BUT if you wait till symptoms appear, how would you know its too late? So it goes back to the saying "rather be safe than sorry". If anyone else some input I'd greatly appreciate it, b/c now Im confused whether to use it throughout the cycle or not

[macrophage69alpha]

as a note nolva has an extremely long half life 8-10 days, after consistent use 14 days or more.

[Krunchtime]

I use a low dose ED to be safe.

[craneboy]

I use a low dose ED to be safe.

same here

[juiceinthehood]

I Used 20mg Ed Last Cycle And My Gains Were Great I Would Really Hate To Get Gyno

[Krunchtime]

I Used 20mg Ed Last Cycle And My Gains Were Great I Would Really Hate To Get Gyno

ya gyno would not be much fun. Better safe then sorry

[John88Test]

gyno....booooo

[dirtybrit55]

how bout just using femera or ldex.

[Gear]

Surely if Nolvadex is used all throughout the cycle it wouldnt effect you from gaining that much. I mean lets just say you put on 20lbs without Nolva, its not like if you used Nolva throughout the cycle you would only put on 10lbs.

[PrairieDawg]

nolva also reduces water retention. I'm guessing people are thinking that they are gaining more without nolva when its really water weight that is being kept off.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. If it does hinder you alittle I'd rather be 5lbs lighter than have bitch tits.

[FB35]

ditto to the better safe than sorry, 10mg ED for me

[dumblucky]

no doubt that gyno is not a good thing,, I sart getting some pufiness on my last cycle and jumped right on some nolva and the puffiness did promply go away with doses of 50-60mg for a week or so
and I do agree that the gains with nolva and without cannot be measured to any degree of certainty on any given individual..
Now I am a true ectomorph in every sense of the word..
as was my father and uncle..
so itry to the most gains I can from any kind of cycle..So I CHOOSE not to use nolva till I feel its neccessary and after 3-4 cycles consisting of anywhere form 500-750mg of test and 75mg tren I havent had any problems
It was only till I got to a cycle of tren/test with over 1g of test week, and 125mg tren daily did I notice some puffiness
lucky sure.. dumblucky prolly....

BUT and this a big but
I used to pay almost 2 dollars for a 10mg tab of nolva
add that up over a period of 15 weeks and you will understand why people wouldnt be to crazy aobut runnin nolva ed
well now we have"research chemicals" they will definily save a lot of folks from havin titties

[PrairieDawg]

To be honest I dont know one single person outside this board that uses nolva and they've never had any problems. Some people just aren't prone and don't think they need it. But on the hand I also don't know anyone who runs pct, and I know alot of guys on the juice. Some of these guys are running 6 or 7 different things too. It will come back to haunt them though I'm sure.