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  1. #1
    FCECC2 is offline Anabolic Member
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    reconsidering test only cycle for newbie...

    some of you probably know that ive got some tendons problems on my last cycle... in my last 2 cycles i was using mostly test in the range of 600-800mg for 10-14 weeks without adding any anabolic compound (i know that in both cycle i stated i will be using deca and primo but then got some money issue and forced to go with dbol /test only ) heres the read that change my thougth about test only cycles...

    btw i stole it at ironbodybuilding.com thanks to Swellin

    While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

    Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

    Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

    Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

    You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

    Deca, Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

    While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

    To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

    Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

    Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

    Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

    Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

    These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

    Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

    Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

    GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

    Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

    Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.


    i would like to read some inputs from the knowledgeable bros about what they think of the inhibiting effect of large dose of test on collagene. the fact that most newbies will probably go heavy on most exercise because of there new strength gain, makes me reconsider the safety of test only cycles since tendons injuries can be very serious and permanent sometime.

  2. #2
    UrbanDawg's Avatar
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    I pulled a shoulder/bicep tendon in my first TEST only cycle and it is STILL hindering me from going heavy. I am limited to hi reps with 225 even thouhg I know I can push 300.

    If I had known that this injury ws coming - I would have added EQ to my first cycle and said the hell with conventional wisdom of TEST only and opted for some protection.

    Having said all that - the EQ does not kick in for several weeks, and then takes even more time to effect tendon growth. You will see signif. strength increas long before the EQ changes your tendon strength signif.

    Your best protection is never make large increments in weight - Even when you feel a big strength burst. Just increase the reps then increase a little weight next time.

    The EQ will help but dont lift like it will prevent injuries.
    Patience is the best protection against what you fear.
    Last edited by UrbanDawg; 07-30-2004 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #3
    FCECC2 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanDawg
    I pulled a shoulder/bicep tendon in my first TEST only cycle and it is STILL hindering me from going heavy. I am limited to hi reps with 225 even thouhg I know I can push 300.

    If I had known that this injury ws coming - I would have added EQ to my first cycle and said the hell with conventional wisdom of TEST only and opted for some protection.

    Having said all that - the EQ does not kick in for several weeks, and then takes even more time to effect tendon growth. You will see signif. strength increas long before the EQ changes your tendon strength signif.

    Your best protection is never make large increments in weight - Even when you feel a big strength burst. Just increase the reps then increase a little weight next time.

    The EQ will help but dont lift like it will prevent injuries.
    Patience is the best protection against what you fear.
    well input, yes you have to build up your tendons in parallel of your strength. i know EQ take a while before being usuful for collagen synthesis, that why im more into long cycle with low doses to let your body adapt to his new strength and be able to prevent the catabolic (?) effect on tendons and joints. i will go further saying you have to put something anabolic to prevent any weakness in the tendons departement . again tendons injuries take a while before they completely heal and can be permanent so i think it a very important issue.

  4. #4
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    MAN I WAS LOOKING FOR THIS. My thread got deleted that had this in it when they switched things over a few months ago.... im glad that this got brought up again.

  5. #5
    PT's Avatar
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    great post bro, very interesting. i never knew about that

  6. #6
    Wrestlingkompressor's Avatar
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    Awesome read!

  7. #7
    monstercojones's Avatar
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    i've seen this post before... it really is a great read. i'll bump this.

    by the way, this article conributed to my decision to run test/deca /eq this cycle. i haven't had any problems so far.

  8. #8
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRLS63
    i would like to read some inputs from the knowledgeable bros about what they think of the inhibiting effect of large dose of test on collagene. the fact that most newbies will probably go heavy on most exercise because of there new strength gain, makes me reconsider the safety of test only cycles since tendons injuries can be very serious and permanent sometime.
    Totally anecdotal but:

    Have you ever noticed that people that have been heavy juicers for many years seem to get very deep lines on their faces? Even when at a reasonable body fat level. Wrinkling is related to collagen levels. Just something to think about.

  9. #9
    Prime's Avatar
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    Thanks for the informative post. That is definatley something to think about and something i think all should read.

  10. #10
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    good read, something to think about

  11. #11
    FCECC2 is offline Anabolic Member
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    bump for inputs from the vets

  12. #12
    1-Cent's Avatar
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    Is there anything you can use that isn't another steroid to help this?

  13. #13
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    TTT.

  14. #14
    worldknown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    TTT.
    excuse me for this extremely n00bi3 question, what is TTT?

  15. #15
    LeanMeOut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldknown
    excuse me for this extremely n00bi3 question, what is TTT?

    To the Top


    <<LMO>>

  16. #16
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanMeOut
    To the Top


    <<LMO>>

    thanks bro I need to hit up the diet forum from time to time to say what up to the diet crew

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