Guys are going overboard on Anti-E's

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:21 PM

I never read on any post from anyone who backed up what they said with a legtimate medical report......Just lots of Big words.

**einstein1905** · 08-01-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

bah ha

How do you think people know its agonistic and antagonistic properites...did we guess? Its called biochemistry and radioactive mapping son...

Exactly, science doesn't do us any good if we just ignore it and don't apply what science has shown us in practice. Anyone with an internet connection has access to pubmed and therefore the majority of the studies on which all of our statements (except for one of us) are based. At least take the time to familiarize yourself with the material before coming out guns a blazin' making claims that have been disproven over a decade ago.

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Oh please, then you probaly know all the negative side effects associated with it to then right???? Oh or all you future scientist gonna break that myth too..................

I like pie.

Anyway, the sides are
increased bone or tumor pain
hot flashes
upset stomach
swelling of the hands, feet, ankles, or lower legs
vaginal discharge
excessive tiredness
dizziness
depression
headache
thinning of hair
loss of appetite
stomach cramps
constipation
loss of sexual desire or ability (in men)

With a very low risk of cardiovascular or cerebrovascular events.

These side effects tend to lessen and disappear with continued use.

**einstein1905** · 08-01-2004, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

I never read on any post from anyone who backed up what they said with a legtimate medical report......Just lots of Big words.

Search the forums......the studies have been posted numerous times, and had you not been so obstinate initially, maybe we'd have been more inclined to repost them. it's not anyone's responsibility to do your research for you

**dieseL atC** · 08-01-2004, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

He can't back a thing up with any facts or even a respectable debate.He just runs and hides when he is shot down.

Fo sho..

**Fat Guy** · 08-01-2004, 01:27 PM

Just A Thought:
I personally believe that anti-e’s are a necessary for cycling and that is why I use my 10mgs of nova ed when cycling and through PCT. However, I was reading an article a while back that made me think. The article’s argument was about the importance of using anti-e’s and if it were that important? One of the arguments that this article presented was that anti-e’s were not available for earlier BB’s and that they did not have serious repercussions from not using anti-e’s. However, the article presented a more articulate argument, than my oversimplified explanation of not using anti-e’s. It made me think well, How important are taking my anti-e’s. Overall, I tend to believe that science and research have come a long way since the earlier days of BB and the information that is out there is much more accurate than it was even five years ago. Many people who understand this issue much more than I do have suggested that anti-e’s are important as of current and I tend to put my stock in current information than yesterdays information.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 08-01-2004, 01:27 PM

www.pubmed.net

go there if you want to see many of the medical reasons

**UrbanLegend** · 08-01-2004, 01:28 PM

What pisses me off about this thing is that he did not come up with the idea, nor did he cite the work of the author of whom he got the work from, I.E hes taking someone else's writing. In this case, it is our freind Big Cat:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catnolv.htm

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by UrbanLegend

What pisses me off about this thing is that he did not come up with the idea, nor did he cite the work of the author of whom he got the work from, I.E hes taking someone else's writing. In this case, it is our freind Big Cat:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catnolv.htm

LMAO. He read that and got all pumped up to take us on and got slammed dunked. Nice try bro. Glad to see you are researching!!!! Just came across some wrong info. Stick around and learn.

**bluethunder** · 08-01-2004, 01:33 PM

But, that still does not prove your view that anti-e's hinder gains. Escpecially at only 10mg ED. True if taken in large amounts I can see the possibilty of some hinderance. By the way we all(most of us) realize that we have estrogen in our bodies and understand the importance of it. Controlling the ratio's of test/estro is one purpose of anti-e's as I know it.

**UrbanLegend** · 08-01-2004, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

LMAO. He read that and got all pumped up to take us on and got slammed dunked. Nice try bro. Glad to see you are researching!!!! Just came across some wrong info. Stick around and learn.

Its much worse than that.....he just cut and pasted this stuff, he litterally plagiarized. Its not like he read the idea and then didn't say where he got it from, then wrote his own stuff, he just took it right off the page. Read the excerpt right before it gets to stacking and use, and then read it to the end.....he just cut and pasted that stuff. I don't care if guys are going to do that, but they need to say where they got it from. Even though no lawyer is going to take them to court because of it, its just the polite thing to do.

**Da Bull** · 08-01-2004, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

LMAO. He read that and got all pumped up to take us on and got slammed dunked. Nice try bro. Glad to see you are researching!!!! Just came across some wrong info. Stick around and learn.

That's tooo funny!..someone just got owned BIGTIME!!

**kingofmasters** · 08-01-2004, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

That's tooo funny!..someone just got owned BIGTIME!!

Yeah he had less chance than a Big Mac opposing Oprah Winfrey...

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by UrbanLegend

Its much worse than that.....he just cut and pasted this stuff, he litterally plagiarized. Read the excerpt right before it gets to stacking and use, and then read it to the end.....he just cut and pasted that stuff. I don't care if guys are going to do that, but they need to say where they got it from. Even though no lawyer is going to take them to court because of it, its just the polite thing to do.

Fo shizzle. Cant be jacking peoples credit after all that research and hard work. Might get a cap busted in yo ass.

(Sorry I am watching Malibus Most Wanted right now.)

**max-it** · 08-01-2004, 01:37 PM

I had to lurk here cuz I am not qualified to add to this discussion. I learned alot reading your posts. As for me, I'm going to take my 10mg of nolva right now.

MAX

**dieseL atC** · 08-01-2004, 01:38 PM

I think we should close the thread, there's nothing more to say..

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:38 PM

I never said it was my work...Its just one of the many things Ive read. Like Fat guy said that made me think that all your sources are pushin this sfuff to much just to make money.............................

**dieseL atC** · 08-01-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

I never said it was my work...Its just one of the many things Ive read. Like Fat guy said that made me think that all your sources are pushin this sfuff to much just to make money.............................

Well then why didn't you say that in the beginning.. but to make money? Who's making money? All the mods/vets buy the same **** we do, so how are they making money. Get a clue dude..

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

I never said it was my work...Its just one of the many things Ive read. Like Fat guy said that made me think that all your sources are pushin this sfuff to much just to make money.............................

The sources I deal with dont push it, as a matter of fact they say it isnt for human consumption.

**einstein1905** · 08-01-2004, 01:40 PM

I actually had a similar discussion with big cat himself, the person whose "idea" he plagiarized......he wouldn't bend, but at least he had some decent points.....too bad you couldn't find that thread at CEM and swipe his rebuttals too

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:40 PM

Like Im the only one on here that cuts and pastes......It was simply a part of an article that proved my point about some guys touting that you have to have Nolva. You dont and lots of guys can prove it.....................

**Fat Guy** · 08-01-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

I never said it was my work...Its just one of the many things Ive read. Like Fat guy said that made me think that all your sources are pushin this sfuff to much just to make money.............................

I did not say that… I said that the article made me think of the importance of anti-e’s. You know current research vs. older ideas sort of thing…

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

The sources I deal with dont push it, as a matter of fact they say it isnt for human consumption.

Its made for women with breast cancer...........

**Da Bull** · 08-01-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Like Im the only one on here that cuts and pastes......It was simply a part of an article that proved my point about some guys touting that you have to have Nolva. You dont and lots of guys can prove it.....................

Prove it,or STFU!

**UrbanLegend** · 08-01-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Like Im the only one on here that cuts and pastes......It was simply a part of an article that proved my point about some guys touting that you have to have Nolva. You dont and lots of guys can prove it.....................

I'm not even involved in the debate, I'm just pissed that I came onto the page and saw BC's work. If you cut and paste, say where you got it from, thats what everyone else does. It wasn't like you even added to what he was saying, you just cut and pasted and let it stand......and get ripped apart

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Its made for women with breast cancer...........

Well the sources most of us get it from are Research Sites and for the record we all use the stuff on lab rats.

To keep it totally real I am such a bad mofo I am my own source.

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:46 PM

Your right fat guy, I didnt mean that you said they were pushin it. But thats what got me to thinkin, what are all these friggin post about Anti-E's? There are more and more ever day. Makes you wonder why alot of guys who dont take it are not having no problems??????? thats all. and the negative benifits are a fact not fiction

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 01:48 PM

Well if you know BCs addy then post it Ill talk to him myself I dont owe you nothin................................

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Well if you know BCs addy then post it Ill talk to him myself I dont owe you nothin................................

Hes incarcerated at the moment isn't he?

Also the you dont owe us nothing is correct, but for the record I would put 1 million dollars on you have nothing.

**UrbanLegend** · 08-01-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Well if you know BCs addy then post it Ill talk to him myself I dont owe you nothin................................

You have a really bad additude

You can find both his email and home addy on this page if you want to contact him and explain what happened

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catsteroids.htm

**einstein1905** · 08-01-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

and the negative benifits are a fact not fiction

What's a "negative benefit"?

And if there is such a thing, how again are they facts and not fiction? Where is this documented?

You've run bloodwork on all of these "experts" that don't use nolva? You've taken their BP readings? All's well, huh?

The reason that there has been a push of late promoting the use of low dose AI and nolva is because we've shown that there isn't a loss of gains when switching to this regimen, and moreover, the benefits (I guess positive benefits, as opposed to negative benefits) on lipid profiles and blood pressure are very welcome.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 08-01-2004, 01:56 PM

Big D, wow your ignorance is annoying!!!!! get a clue

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 02:02 PM

Just show me the evidence that says that I need to use Nolva with every cycle as opposed to using it only when needed and Ill shut up....................

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Just show me the evidence that says that I need to use Nolva with every cycle as opposed to using it only when needed and Ill shut up....................

Do what you want, I give up. Good luck in all of your future endeavors.

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 02:04 PM

The bottom line is your blocking Estrogen that is vital to growth................. When most of the time its not needed.

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 02:06 PM

Dude Ive never takin it ......And if I feel like I do I will, not just because someone tells me to.

**Lozgod** · 08-01-2004, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

The bottom line is your blocking Estrogen that is vital to growth................. When most of the time its not needed.

OK You are right, and you have a great reading comprehension ability also.

**Big_Diesel** · 08-01-2004, 02:08 PM

**einstein1905** · 08-01-2004, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

The bottom line is your blocking Estrogen that is vital to growth................. When most of the time its not needed.

You're blocking estrogenic activity at the mammary and to a lesser degree, at the hypothalamus.....pretty much everywhere else it is an estrogen receptor agonist.....this was already gone over.

Also, your lipid levels, which are critical to cardiovascular health, are greatly affected by AAS....However, nolva can help raise HDL and lower LDL, thus improving your lipid profile.....

Listen, you've already been directed to pubmed 2x already, at least go there and acclimate yourself with the material before pontificating on its behalf

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 08-01-2004, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Diesel

Dude Ive never takin it ......And if I feel like I do I will, not just because someone tells me to.

Post your blood work results while on cycle as well as your BP readings

So what was your ave BP?
What was your lipid panel like? (tri, total, ldl, hdl)
SHBG?
E2?
PL?
AST?
ALT?
BUN?
CBC?
Total, Free TEst?

Lets go ahead and see it. Youve stated that you dont take it cause you havent needed it, so surely you must know the answers to these question.

Dont tell me your foolish enough to think that just because you dont see something externally that nothing is happening internally