Guys are going overboard on Anti-E's

[kingofmasters]

Dont tell me your foolish enough to think that just because you dont see something externally that nothing is happening internally

True Wisdom!

[Big_Diesel]

I agree with you on the lipids. But as far as It blocking at certain receptors lessens the amount in your system, has to. It just doesnt go to another area and upload. Also the research says its blocked at other areas besides the breast. It doesnt say shuttled to other areas it says blocked.

[Big_Diesel]

Internally??.......so you guys think that takin Nolva is going to lessen the effects of steroids on your cardiovascular system???? PLease

[Big_Diesel]

Please show me that study........please

[Billy_Bathgate]

Go ahead and post your blood work for me...

[einstein1905]

I agree with you on the lipids. But as far as It blocking at certain receptors lessens the amount in your system, has to. It just doesnt go to another area and upload. Also the research says its blocked at other areas besides the breast. It doesnt say shuttled to other areas it says blocked.

That's exactly what it means.......by not being able to bind at the mammary and hypothalamus, it still contributes to total sytemic estrogen levels and therefore increases the odds of binding at a more desireable location.

[einstein1905]

Internally??.......so you guys think that takin Nolva is going to lessen the effects of steroids on your cardiovascular system???? PLease

Yeah, you just agreed that it helps one's lipid profile, and now in your very next breath, you laugh at the idea that it would be beneficial to the CV system?

[Lozgod]

Yeah, you just agreed that it helps one's lipid profiles, and now in your very next breatth, you laugh at the idea that it would be beneficial to the CV system?

I hope you are getting enjoyment from this conversation because it seems to me that it is falling on deaf ears. Or blind eyes, or non firing transmitters/receptors.

[Big_Diesel]

That Study On Lipid Profile Was Done On Normal Males Not Steroids Users. Geeeeezzzzz

[einstein1905]

That Study On Lipid Profile Was Done On Normal Males Not Steroids Users. Geeeeezzzzz

It's certainly not my responsibility to educate you, especially when you're not putting in the effort yourself......but, the fact that nolva raises HDL and lowers LDL has nothing to do with some other factor having an opposite effect in the body. HDL and LDL synthesis and degradation doesn't work by different mechanisms in steroid users and "normal" males, who BTW also have testosterone in their system. There are numerous studies showing nolva's effects on lipids.....it sounds to me like you just decided to sniff out the first one and call it a day....keep reading

[Billy_Bathgate]

That Study On Lipid Profile Was Done On Normal Males Not Steroids Users. Geeeeezzzzz

THE STUDY

there is only one?

There are many endo journals

When are you going to post your blood work, or are you admitting you dont have any and you then admit you have no clue whats going on inside you and then you are there admitting you have no idea what your talking about

[Big_Diesel]

You guys can take as much of it as you want......Its not a steroid so why dont we just keep it in its proper section. So those of us who come on here to talk about steroids dont have to wade through all the crap like: Gee I got Gyno, How much Nolva, etc. Maybe you guys that are pusin the sale of Nolva can do it in a PM.

And Ill put my blood work up against anybodys..................And I get my bloodwork done regularly. And Im probably alot older than you.

[Big_Diesel]

And hopfully youll be as good as all the worthless Drs. out there that dont know anything besides what the journals say.

[Lozgod]

You guys can take as much of it as you want......Its not a steroid so why dont we just keep it in its proper section. So those of us who come on here to talk about steroids dont have to wade through all the crap like: Gee I got Gyno, How much Nolva, etc. Maybe you guys that are pusin the sale of Nolva can do it in a PM.

And Ill put my blood work up against anybodys..................

I need to unsubscribe from this thread because everytime I see this moron post it his stupidity upsets me to no end. You probaly never got blood work a day in your life, but if you did then what is your HDL/LDL/VDL/Total Cholesterol/and Triglyceride levels? Not that I care I just want to see if your answer reflects your knowledge or your ignorance.

[Rickson]

I'm not sure if this argument is strictly reserved for serms or is based on the idea that anti-E's negatively impact growth. Here is a study that hopefully will clear up the second one.



Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. [email protected]

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin -like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

PMID: 10902781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[dumblucky]

ok im sold 10mg nolva daily for me also
( and yes I USED to believe that nolva on hand was better than every day
yes IM old school

[Big_Diesel]

Nice article but am I reading the dose right? 1mg? I wouldnt think they would find much change with such a small dose. Look, for those of you who hate me now because I dont believe that Nolvadex should be added to a cycle like a vitamin, Im sorry if I offended you. By the way I do have some, but I havent needed it yet.

[KINGKONG]

Big Diesel chill out admit your wrong, your arguing with very educated men and making yourself look bad......Just quit posting on this thread and let this thread drift..................IMO research some on AR ,nobody can no everything

[Big_Diesel]

Look dude I dont claim to know everthing. And I have researched, Im just not sold that you need to take an Anti-E with every cycle. I did some more research on Arimidex and that sounds like the best way to go. I would still only use it post cycle or if some problems came up. Maybe since I am old school and Ive never experienced gyno Im a little skeptical. Medical research means very little ,especially when done by the company thats making the drug.

[Froggy]

Medical research means very little ,especially when done by the company thats making the drug.

Now that is a good point!

[immy]

opinions are like assholes everyone has one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lozgod]

opinions are like assholes everyone has one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And assholes are like assholes, they all have chit come out of them.

[immy]

that is correct, some is thicker than others

[immy]

hes entitled to his and you are too, but i agree with you all the way

[SportsMedVIP]

You guys can take as much of it as you want......Its not a steroid so why dont we just keep it in its proper section. So those of us who come on here to talk about steroids dont have to wade through all the crap like: Gee I got Gyno, How much Nolva, etc. Maybe you guys that are pusin the sale of Nolva can do it in a PM.

Didn't you start this thread with your brilliant scientific study? And yeah, calling two of the most educated mods on here nolva pushers is smart.

[Lozgod]

Didn't you start this thread with your brilliant scientific study?

Oh yeah I didnt even think about that. LMFAO!!!!

[SportsMedVIP]

Medical research means very little ,especially when done by the company thats making the drug.

Now that is a good point!

Fortunately there are countless independent research facilities that verify drugs usages and side effects.

[Big_Diesel]

This should be a ****kin estrogen forum thats all you little bittches talk about .........."oh my Estrogen level is to high, help me! help me!" Just wear your Bra like you do every Sat. night.

[Lozgod]

This should be a ****kin estrogen forum thats all you little bittches talk about .........."oh my Estrogen level is to high, help me! help me!" Just wear your Bra like you do every Sat. night.

You are going to need a bra if you dont start taking Nolvadex . I like D Cups, if you grow some shoot me a PM.

[SportsMedVIP]

This should be a ****kin estrogen forum thats all you little bittches talk about .........."oh my Estrogen level is to high, help me! help me!" Just wear your Bra like you do every Sat. night.

I apoligize for starting this thread in the wrong forum. It was my fault. I'll try not to be such a dumbass next time and post it in the correct forum so no one b*tches at me for being dumb like I am.

[Big_Diesel]

Please little boy..and I stress little...........Pot raises Estrogen levels too but it seems your still smoking.

[DADDYDBOL]

This should be a ****kin estrogen forum thats all you little bittches talk about .........."oh my Estrogen level is to high, help me! help me!" Just wear your Bra like you do every Sat. night.

you smell like poo....

[SportsMedVIP]

Please little boy..and I stress little...........Pot raises Estrogen levels too but it seems your still smoking.

But I thought you said we wanted estrogen in us. I actually just took up smoking pot 10 minutes ago after I read all the studies you posted in this thread about how I need more estrogen. D*mn, I'll have to quit now I guess. And it was kinda fun for 10 minutes. Oh well.

[Big_Diesel]

[LeanMeOut]

This should be a ****kin estrogen forum thats all you little bittches talk about .........."oh my Estrogen level is to high, help me! help me!" Just wear your Bra like you do every Sat. night.

This guy has done nothing but start $hit since he got here.


<<LMO>>

[Lozgod]

This guy has done nothing but start $hit since he got here.


<<LMO>>

No I like him he has potential. Give him 3 more cycles and he'll have a nice pair of jugs on him.

[LeanMeOut]

No I like him he has potential. Give him 3 more cycles and he'll have a nice pair of jugs on him.

as long as he promises to post pics he can stay


<<LMO>>

[Paingain]

I think anti E's are good to have on hand, but by the time one has done a few good cycles, they pretty much know what they are suspect to. My buddy was just taking 75mg fina eod, and about 300mg of test prop a week, thats it!!! and shortly after he ended his cycle gyno showed up. I however shot 500 mg of test a week, with 75mg fina ed and got absolutely no signs of gyno. Also popped 8 d-bols a day for 6 weeks before and again, nothing. However, my buddy has clear as day skin, and my back looks like a ****ing strawberry patch, so as I say, I believe that depending on what your taking and what you are susceptable to, this issue is a draw. But I will say that I think alot of guys really do go overboard with the anti e's. I can see both arguments on this matter, on one hand better safe than sorry, on the other hand, is all this really necessary. But lets not forget all the pro's and top amateurs that we often see on stage with moderate gyno. And you mean to tell me that they didnt have anti e's? So as was pointed out earlier, nolva doesnt stop everything.

[SportsMedVIP]

I think anti E's are good to have on hand, but by the time one has done a few good cycles, they pretty much know what they are suspect to. My buddy was just taking 75mg fina eod, and about 300mg of test prop a week, thats it!!! and shortly after he ended his cycle gyno showed up.

This sounds like he didn't use Clomid for PCT, or he did but didn't use Nolva to stop the estrogen inevitably released by Clomid Therapy.

[MrDezel]

...so what you're all saying is that I CAN DRINK WINNY??

jk jk... I just cant believe were debating anti-e's to this day still.