5000mg of test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Justincase]

Were you in the Revolutionary war? World War 2? Probably not but if someone asked you a question about it I bet you could give a pretty good answer. I personally dont know everything about steroids. Some steroids i dont know anything about because i decided i didnt need them at this point. But when the time comes and i want to use them i dont care if the info people provide is first hand or if they heard it from someone else. As long as the information is quality advice I dont care who i hear it from.

fair!!!! but what if that person had only been reading about WW2 for the past
4 week and they have only gotten to the part where we went into Europe....
would you take the info they gave you on the south pacific????

[BUYLONGTERM]

I try my hardest never to comment on something if I haven't done the a particular AS Meaning, I have never tried Clen . Just because I know info about it (reading on the board) doesn't mean I should comment on it. I try not to because I have no personal experience with it.

I get upset when I see new guys telling a newbie it's OK to run 1g+ of TEST for a first cycle. To me that is nonsense. Or just because someone doesn't need anti-e's there telling newbies its a waste! I think for new guys, You have to give the best advise possible to help them. It's up to the individual to make his/her own desicsion. It's up to us to help them along the way.

[Demon Deacon]

fair!!!! but what if that person had only been reading about WW2 for the past
4 week and they have only gotten to the part where we went into Europe....
would you take the info they gave you on the south pacific????

No i would hope they wouldn't comment on it. However anyone who gives a comment on this site probably read a little bit about what ever they are talking about. I agree with you that some people will offer bad advice such as tapering and things like that. I agree with you that in some cases experience is better than having someone tell you about a steroid when all they did was read about it. But i think its fair to say that reading about things can make you an expert on the subject without actually using the drug. I agree with your stance as long as you agree that people with no experience can offer you just as good advice as someone who has a lot of experience.

[dumblucky]

while we are at it why not hit upon the answering of redundant questions by newbies
like can you dringk winny
or how many mg of dbol a day
alot of questions can be aswered by doinng a search but ALOT of people would rather post than do a **** search..
I am quilty of that myself jsut because sometimes I dont think and just start to post ...
but I say ignore the posts that can be aswered by a simple search
I saw one the other day
stating "has anyone ever heard of Brovel"

[Da Bull]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

[BUYLONGTERM]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

Exactly!!! And I appreciate all your advise bro!!!

[Demon Deacon]

I as well am guilty of PMing experienced members with my question. I think this is what leads to the steroid forum just being filled with newbie questions. The tough questions should also be asked there so all can read.

[bluethunder]

I agree, I myself only respond to questions I believe I have the knowledge . That can be either from experience or education means. Realize too that someone does not neccessarily need to have direct experience to answer a specific question if they can give proof or have the background. Since my personal experience is limited concerning AAS I have much to offer about nutrition, supplementation, exercise, pysiology, and just plain ailments since I'm 45(life experience)

[BeefCakeStew]

i agree with you beef about starting with prop for 4 weeks and ending it with 3 weeks of prop, i was just showing an example of anothers cycle, if i were to use prop, i would also do ed injects,i am not saying that you are wrong or he is wrong, there are a lot of ways to run cycles, and that was an example of one, i wouldnt run enth eod either, thats just me, i was just throwimg examples out,but this cycle was done by a lot of different people, but these threads are good because you get different views, and your right, all i can do is take the opinion of what resembles the truth, because there really is no definet way to take aas, but some of my opinions on aas use come from other's experiences, and is a factor when i do a cycle, i saw what a deca only cycle did to my bro, i saw what a fina only cycle did to my bro, now i am seeing what a prop, enth, finas combo does,so my question is, do you go by other's experineces, or just do what you read, or a combo of both, for me i needed 20 mgs of nolva ed, 10 wasnt enough, so it kind of is trial and error

I agree with you, other peoples first-hand experiences are a must. First-hand experiences are necessary in establishing trends, and we use this, along with any and all information possible to give ourselves the best place to start our cycle.

In other words, how did you know to start at 10mg Nolva ED? Trends with gyno symptoms, biochemistry, and any studies that we can derive useful info from. This gives us our place to start and we tweak from there.

Bull brought a good point to mind . For our purposes, we have few references, studies, and research to refer to. This makes it is unfair to compare traditional medical advice with steroid advice. IMO Someone can certainly do the grunt work and find a trend amonsts users and report that trend and use it in deducing hypotheses, but that someone should not claim to have experienced what it is they are talking because this could establish false trends.

I think our real problem is Forum Parrots. Most senior members arent infected with the disease and have the ability to absorb relevant information when presented to them.

On the other hand, a Forum Parrot--one whom answers a question based on the response of another (usually a senior member, vet, mod), while having no understanding to why the answer is either right or wrong, is very dangerous to another bro. For instance, if someone is asking advice on taking a substance for a particular situation and a Forum Parrot barks a reply for what would have been acceptible in a different circumstance, that bro could be placed in serious jeopardy because the parrot barked a reply for something that was unacceptible in the different situation. IMO this is the real problem.

Good Advice is Good Advice. However, the trend is set that bros with more AS experience *on the boards* are more knowledgable about AS in general; therefore, usually making them most qualified to answer. There is no need for Parrots putting others in jeopardy or giving false info.

[BeefCakeStew]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

Bro, I agree. Use the best information possible from the best sources possible. Got a few questions brewing myself, when they are done Ill be sure to shoot you a PM

Glad the thread called out some of the Seniors to give their replies. This kind of dialogue makes threads worth reading.

[Da Bull]

I agree with you, other peoples first-hand experiences are a must. First-hand experiences are necessary in establishing trends, and we use this, along with any and all information possible to give ourselves the best place to start our cycle.

In other words, how did you know to start at 10mg Nolva ED? Trends with gyno symptoms, biochemistry, and any studies that we can derive useful info from. This gives us our place to start and we tweak from there.

Bull brought a good point to mind . For our purposes, we have few references, studies, and research to refer to. This makes it is unfair to compare traditional medical advice with steroid advice. IMO Someone can certainly do the grunt work and find a trend amonsts users and report that trend and use it in deducing hypotheses, but that someone should not claim to have experienced what it is they are talking because this could establish false trends.

I think our real problem is Forum Parrots. Most senior members arent infected with the disease and have the ability to absorb relevant information when presented to them.

On the other hand, a Forum Parrot--one whom answers a question based on the response of another (usually a senior member, vet, mod), while having no understanding to why the answer is either right or wrong, is very dangerous to another bro. For instance, if someone is asking advice on taking a substance for a particular situation and a Forum Parrot barks a reply for what would have been acceptible in a different circumstance, that bro could be placed in serious jeopardy because the parrot barked a reply for something that was unacceptible in the different situation. IMO this is the real problem.

Good Advice is Good Advice. However, the trend is set that bros with more AS experience *on the boards* are more knowledgable about AS in general; therefore, usually making them most qualified to answer. There is no need for Parrots putting others in jeopardy or giving false info.

Bravo!!!!Excellent!!Well put bro.

[dirtdawg]

I agree with you, other peoples first-hand experiences are a must. First-hand experiences are necessary in establishing trends, and we use this, along with any and all information possible to give ourselves the best place to start our cycle.

In other words, how did you know to start at 10mg Nolva ED? Trends with gyno symptoms, biochemistry, and any studies that we can derive useful info from. This gives us our place to start and we tweak from there.

Bull brought a good point to mind . For our purposes, we have few references, studies, and research to refer to. This makes it is unfair to compare traditional medical advice with steroid advice. IMO Someone can certainly do the grunt work and find a trend amonsts users and report that trend and use it in deducing hypotheses, but that someone should not claim to have experienced what it is they are talking because this could establish false trends.

I think our real problem is Forum Parrots. Most senior members arent infected with the disease and have the ability to absorb relevant information when presented to them.

On the other hand, a Forum Parrot--one whom answers a question based on the response of another (usually a senior member, vet, mod), while having no understanding to why the answer is either right or wrong, is very dangerous to another bro. For instance, if someone is asking advice on taking a substance for a particular situation and a Forum Parrot barks a reply for what would have been acceptible in a different circumstance, that bro could be placed in serious jeopardy because the parrot barked a reply for something that was unacceptible in the different situation. IMO this is the real problem.

Good Advice is Good Advice. However, the trend is set that bros with more AS experience *on the boards* are more knowledgable about AS in general; therefore, usually making them most qualified to answer. There is no need for Parrots putting others in jeopardy or giving false info.

after reading and being around for awhile, you know who knows ther sh*t, and who is a parrot, DB, mudman, einstein,cycleon,ron,sv 1, consistency, just to name a few all know there sh*t, that is who i trust and listen to, but for newbies, they dont know who to believe, and that is a big problem, your right, that is why newbies should read the educational forum before askong if they can drink winny, which always makes me laugh by the way

[BeefCakeStew]

after reading and being around for awhile, you know who knows ther sh*t, and who is a parrot, DB, mudman, einstein,cycleon,ron,sv 1, consistency, just to name a few all know there sh*t, that is who i trust and listen to, but for newbies, they dont know who to believe, and that is a big problem, your right, that is why newbies should read the educational forum before askong if they can drink winny, which always makes me laugh by the way

Totally agree. Thats why for the last few weeks I have been devoting my time to reading threads and posts of those members you mentioned amongst others, Pheedno, Ron, Billy Bathgate.... Have yet to come across garbage on their threads.

Why ask the opinion of a mechanic for my health concerns and the opinion of a doctor for my car troubles, right?

[einstein1905]

I agree with you, other peoples first-hand experiences are a must. First-hand experiences are necessary in establishing trends, and we use this, along with any and all information possible to give ourselves the best place to start our cycle.

In other words, how did you know to start at 10mg Nolva ED? Trends with gyno symptoms, biochemistry, and any studies that we can derive useful info from. This gives us our place to start and we tweak from there.

Bull brought a good point to mind . For our purposes, we have few references, studies, and research to refer to. This makes it is unfair to compare traditional medical advice with steroid advice. IMO Someone can certainly do the grunt work and find a trend amonsts users and report that trend and use it in deducing hypotheses, but that someone should not claim to have experienced what it is they are talking because this could establish false trends.

I think our real problem is Forum Parrots. Most senior members arent infected with the disease and have the ability to absorb relevant information when presented to them.

On the other hand, a Forum Parrot--one whom answers a question based on the response of another (usually a senior member, vet, mod), while having no understanding to why the answer is either right or wrong, is very dangerous to another bro. For instance, if someone is asking advice on taking a substance for a particular situation and a Forum Parrot barks a reply for what would have been acceptible in a different circumstance, that bro could be placed in serious jeopardy because the parrot barked a reply for something that was unacceptible in the different situation. IMO this is the real problem.

Good Advice is Good Advice. However, the trend is set that bros with more AS experience *on the boards* are more knowledgable about AS in general; therefore, usually making them most qualified to answer. There is no need for Parrots putting others in jeopardy or giving false info.

Well put....also, the thread parrots can cause an even bigger problem.....information evolution (AKA paraphrasing). I've seen, for an example, people say that letro and nolva "cancel eachother out"....most likely, this originated from the fact that using nolva with letro (or adex for that matter) reduces the plasma concentration of the AI slightly, but that's quite a leap in saying that they cancel eachother out, which implies they shouldn't be used together....when in fact, they are fine toi be used together, as one simply adjusts the dose accordingly. I also see all too often "adex (or letro) completely blocks the conversion of estrogen"........nooooo, not at all the case, especially for our purposes. It merely reduces the frequency at which an aromatizable substrate (usually test) is converted to estrogen....in a dose-dependent manner. Never is our goal to completely prevent estrogen formation. It's these little semantic flaws that can be detrimental to thread parroting. Parrot verbatim or paraphrase only when you completely grasp the information at hand...other than that, it could cause more harm than good

[50%Natural]

yes, thread parrots are annoying

[dirtdawg]

yes, thread parrots are annoying

yes, thread parrots are annoying

[SportsMedVIP]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

I think this is a good idea but I also agree with Deacon. I am a big proponent of getting that quality information on the board and in the archives for everyone to use. Maybe after getting a quality answer from a trusted experienced person on here it should be brought to the board for everyone else. JMO though.

[kingofmasters]

yes, thread parrots are annoying

Test is best!

[BodyMechanic]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

yes you are right. That is why i choose to PM Dabull and a few others for my questions. After you have been on here a little while and read all the post you know who will give good advice.When i have a question i don't feel like reading something i could have looked up myself.

[Justincase]

Thanks guys for your support (I feel better knowing I'm not the only one).....I just wanted to bring this out with the hope of slowing it down a bit.....

[bluestrm]

Very good response from BeefCakeStew. I agree with what you say 100%. And I think it is better for someone to get a broad spectum from the answers on posts rather than only from the users. Half of the juiceheads around don't quiet understand how and what is going on with what they inject.
I'm sure it would be a lot wiser to take the advice of someone who has read up and is very knowledgeable on the subject rather than a newbie who has used an AAS because his buddy had good results.
Just to point out a fact...Big Cat is very well known in this "community". His knwledge is far beyond that of the majority of the AAS users around. And it is a fact that he has not used every substance that he can write a comprehensive book about.
The best thing to do, is to make a decision based on intelligence. First hand experience is not always the best answer.

[odrorir]

So does my low post count mean I have no first hand experience? Are you trying to promote an elitist attitude when so many inexperienced ppl need help and the "vets" seem to be the least willing to help newbies... Anyway's a firm grasp of science is as important as first hand experience, and I think your knowledge of people's "first hand experience" is limited to yourself!

[50%Natural]

So does my low post count mean I have no first hand experience? Are you trying to promote an elitist attitude when so many inexperienced ppl need help and the "vets" seem to be the least willing to help newbies... Anyway's a firm grasp of science is as important as first hand experience, and I think your knowledge of people's "first hand experience" is limited to yourself!

sorry you just got here, did you think that you were being singled out? If you have scientific knowledge and know your stuff, people will see it in your posts and gain respect for you over time...now go clean out that poopy diaper

[Da Bull]

..now go clean out that poopy diaper

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Orpheus]

This is all very socialogically interesting.
A 3 tier sub-society

the means of achieving higher social status is posting

upper class = vets
they are not usually concerned with social status, and post useful info

lower class = newbies
they may wish to stop being newbies but have very little useful info to offer

middle class = everyone else
they may wish to rise in social status or at least guard their position

The primary mistake of the socially ambitious newbie is over-posting and under learning. They wish to be gain the respect of vets by answering questions resembling ones that the vets have answered with similar answers. Theoretically the vets will agree and this newbie will have earned some esteem. Parrotting is another tool of the newbies as it increases their post count and aligns them once again with respected vets.

Constantly in conflict with the lower class, the middle class struggles to hold their position and fend away the ambitious newbies that would love to overtake them. Their primary mistake is in wasting everyone's time attacking the newbies. They use their knowledge of how ridiculous they know a vet will think a naive newbie post is to attack the newbie, thus fending off the newbie's attempted coup d'etat, increasing their post count, and aligning themselves further with the vets. These skirmishes can engulf many pages of forum content.

Perhaps a fourth class exists mingled within the others. This class is not concerned with class struggle, but posts for other reasons, legitimately wishing to benefit the community and share in those benefits. It takes great care not to confuse these people with the others as sometimes the posts can look identical. Perhaps a newbie really has created a harmful post, let us not rush to accuse the one who calls him out of having ulterior motives. The issue is being genuine.

Whoa there.. the part of my brain with info about karl marx and orwell just collided with the part where I keep the anabolic review stuff as I was reading this thread. thanks for letting me purge all of that.

[50%Natural]

did I really just read that? I agree sorta, but find it ultimately useless as it is just the internet

[einstein1905]

This is all very socialogically interesting.
A 3 tier sub-society

the means of achieving higher social status is posting

upper class = vets
they are not usually concerned with social status, and post useful info

lower class = newbies
they may wish to stop being newbies but have very little useful info to offer

middle class = everyone else
they may wish to rise in social status or at least guard their position

The primary mistake of the socially ambitious newbie is over-posting and under learning. They wish to be gain the respect of vets by answering questions resembling ones that the vets have answered with similar answers. Theoretically the vets will agree and this newbie will have earned some esteem. Parrotting is another tool of the newbies as it increases their post count and aligns them once again with respected vets.

Constantly in conflict with the lower class, the middle class struggles to hold their position and fend away the ambitious newbies that would love to overtake them. Their primary mistake is in wasting everyone's time attacking the newbies. They use their knowledge of how ridiculous they know a vet will think a naive newbie post is to attack the newbie, thus fending off the newbie's attempted coup d'etat, increasing their post count, and aligning themselves further with the vets. These skirmishes can engulf many pages of forum content.

Perhaps a fourth class exists mingled within the others. This class is not concerned with class struggle, but posts for other reasons, legitimately wishing to benefit the community and share in those benefits. It takes great care not to confuse these people with the others as sometimes the posts can look identical. Perhaps a newbie really has created a harmful post, let us not rush to accuse the one who calls him out of having ulterior motives. The issue is being genuine.

Whoa there.. the part of my brain with info about karl marx and orwell just collided with the part where I keep the anabolic review stuff as I was reading this thread. thanks for letting me purge all of that.

I smelled a hint of Neitzsche and maybe some Huxley too

[SKiN]

Great thread...

Nice post Orpheus... Fun read....hehe

[MMC78]

I smelled a hint of Neitzsche and maybe some Huxley too

That's because you're a show-off double plus Alpha.

[MikeyZ23]

Couldn't agree with this post more... If I wanted information I could read a book or search web sites. You benefit greatly from getting good information from people's personal experiences.

[Da Bull]

This is all very socialogically interesting.
A 3 tier sub-society

the means of achieving higher social status is posting

upper class = vets
they are not usually concerned with social status, and post useful info

lower class = newbies
they may wish to stop being newbies but have very little useful info to offer

middle class = everyone else
they may wish to rise in social status or at least guard their position

The primary mistake of the socially ambitious newbie is over-posting and under learning. They wish to be gain the respect of vets by answering questions resembling ones that the vets have answered with similar answers. Theoretically the vets will agree and this newbie will have earned some esteem. Parrotting is another tool of the newbies as it increases their post count and aligns them once again with respected vets.

Constantly in conflict with the lower class, the middle class struggles to hold their position and fend away the ambitious newbies that would love to overtake them. Their primary mistake is in wasting everyone's time attacking the newbies. They use their knowledge of how ridiculous they know a vet will think a naive newbie post is to attack the newbie, thus fending off the newbie's attempted coup d'etat, increasing their post count, and aligning themselves further with the vets. These skirmishes can engulf many pages of forum content.

Perhaps a fourth class exists mingled within the others. This class is not concerned with class struggle, but posts for other reasons, legitimately wishing to benefit the community and share in those benefits. It takes great care not to confuse these people with the others as sometimes the posts can look identical. Perhaps a newbie really has created a harmful post, let us not rush to accuse the one who calls him out of having ulterior motives. The issue is being genuine.

Whoa there.. the part of my brain with info about karl marx and orwell just collided with the part where I keep the anabolic review stuff as I was reading this thread. thanks for letting me purge all of that.

Entertaining post....I love it!!

[Russ616]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

I couldn't agree more. . .

[50%Natural]

Ever notice the experienced bros on this board,or any other,never asks questions on an open board?(and yes,even the most experienced have questions)The answer is,they keep it to pm's and ask other very experienced members thier experience.Why read through 20 posts,when you'll only get 1 or 2 good answers from ppl you can trust.
When you are on any board long enough,you know who the experienced are.Personally,if I have a question,I don't want it answered with some refference to another or from a text book.I want to hear first hand experiences and results.I can then make my judgement from there.

I'll elaborate on this point since I don't really ask questions on this main board anymore. I have noticed that about 90% of the people who answer questions in this forum can only answer the most general questions. An example, I asked a while back if anyone had any critiques to a potential cycle. It was a prop,tren ,masteron ,var cycle. Well, the whole night goes by with about 25 views and no responses. Why is that? Because most guys can't give advice beyond the normal bread and butter bulking cycle and a prop/tren cutting cycle. I found it absolutely pathetic. And earlier this week I mention I'm going to try out 100mg var in a couple different posts and I get the basic newb response concerning my dosage selection..."You'll need a new liver" "That's way too excessive" with absolutley no knowledge to back up their statement except spouting off an opinion they read else where. It wouldn't have even surprised me if some of the negative comments I got were from people who had never even tried var...very annoying and the fact that people want to give advice on stuff they have never tried annoys me even more. I respect opinions if you've been down that road before but if you haven't, just sit back and learn and read from other experiences instead of giving counterproductive advice trying to look like you actually have knowledge about what you are talking about. This post doesn't refer to any one member in particular as I see the same general comments (lacking knowledge as well as trial) made on most large boards such as this where the traffic is mainly newbs