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08-02-2004, 12:58 PM #1Associate Member
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5000mg of test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First off there are some really good guys on this board……This is not directed to you.
Okay guys I think we need to change the way things are going
on this board……We can all look up a subject and search on almost any AS
on this site, that does not mean you know how to use it (everyone is still learning)….people on this site read the Q and A parts and then think they
are an expert on the subject. I do not post a reply to questions on any AS that I have not done myself, nor do I think people should, if you feel the need to say something then tell them to "read up" or post a link to the
thread. When I ask a question I would like to hear from members that have done that type of AS…not someone who has read it and is just repeating
what they have read (as if they have many cycles doing it). There just
seems to be some members (too many) posting information as if they were
a subject expert and this should stop. Please guys don’t post to a cycle question unless you, yourself have done it. This would save your time and
the sites bandwidth.
JMO.
Thank you for your time................
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08-02-2004, 01:04 PM #2
Couldn't agree more bro.....I've noticed that over this summer as well.I guess ppl feel compelled to post reguritated info even if the have no experience with it.I don't think you can ever stop that tho...it might slow a little when college starts up again.
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08-02-2004, 01:05 PM #3
Well I agree with Jusincase. If you haven't run a cycle then how can you give first hand knowledge? What kind of reply was that?
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08-02-2004, 01:05 PM #4Originally Posted by Justincase
Last edited by dieselatc; 08-02-2004 at 01:08 PM.
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08-02-2004, 01:06 PM #5
Bull, AWESOME! Yes too many armchair AS "users" on here with hypothetical knowledge.
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08-02-2004, 01:06 PM #6Associate Member
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Originally Posted by pietro75
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08-02-2004, 01:07 PM #7
**** I wouldve of never know.
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08-02-2004, 01:09 PM #8
If I ever post anything on something I have read here I say for example Da Bull said etc.. or Einstein says... never do I give the pretense that I am the one with the knowledge.
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08-02-2004, 01:10 PM #9
I just say something like "it's my understanding that.." or "from what I've read.." or "if I'm not mistaken" or...
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08-02-2004, 01:10 PM #10
i agree. A lot of people post info on stuff like they have done it or they tell younger guys(20-21) that they are too young and you look at their profile and they are 19 and have already done at least one cycle,Now i am not encouraging the use of AS at this age i Myself were 25 when i started.But you have to realize some of these guys are going to do it anyway no matter what you say so give them the right advice.
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08-02-2004, 01:12 PM #11
i am just the local a.r. whore so dont take any of my advice.. unless it has something to do with whoring. then i can help tons.. perhaps enlighten you on the path of rightess whoring..
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08-02-2004, 01:12 PM #12Associate Member
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Originally Posted by dieselatc
just giving you opinion is cool..........you know......
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08-02-2004, 01:13 PM #13
Exactly, or don't give them any advice at all b*tchs..
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08-02-2004, 01:30 PM #14
So how does this relate to 5000mg of test???? (the title)
Good point though.
-B
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08-02-2004, 01:35 PM #15Associate Member
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Originally Posted by twosocks40
sorry about that guys!
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08-02-2004, 01:37 PM #16Associate Member
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i think the 5000 title was to get everyone and thier grandma to look at the thread. good tactic if thats what it is...
i agree to a certain extent. if someone does not have first hand experience with it, then i would expect to see a reference along with thier advice. kinda like writing a paper for college, dont take credit for someone elses blood sweat and tears, give credit where its due. show where you learned it from, if possible.
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08-02-2004, 01:38 PM #17
No Thread Parrots
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08-02-2004, 01:47 PM #18
I agree, I have read a LOT of stuff about a LOT of gear...but since I have only run TEST, Deca , EQ, Winny and D-bol those are the only ones I feel comfortable advising on. if you are going to comment on something you haven't done start out by saying "I have read/heard etc..."
~R
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08-02-2004, 01:53 PM #19Originally Posted by trailrider38
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08-02-2004, 01:58 PM #20
there really is no right or wrong way of using aas, my bro is running prop and enth eod, that is not what most people on the board agrees with, but a lot of people he trains with have done cycles like that before, and got great results, its all trial and error, and everyone reacts different
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08-02-2004, 02:02 PM #21
Please explain thread parrot, my hamster is sleeping and unable to power my brain at this time.
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08-02-2004, 02:04 PM #22
yeah 5000 mgs of test a week would be rediculous as hell
somebody try it.
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08-02-2004, 02:04 PM #23Associate Member
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Originally Posted by dirtdawg
no one would have a problem with that.....but what if he was now giving out
info on something he has never done????
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08-02-2004, 02:06 PM #24
Wait a minute I just got it! I'm okay now!
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08-02-2004, 02:07 PM #25Originally Posted by 1victor
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08-02-2004, 02:08 PM #26
Ive never met a doctor that needed first hand experience to understand the effects of a medication and to prescribe it. What would the consequences be, if I told my HRT specialist, sorry I can't let you help me because you have never injected Test Cyp into your body, so you cant possibly know how it will work in my body.
First hand knowledge is needed for first hand explanations. How did you feel when you took it? What are you experiences with this drug? Were the results any different on a EQ only compared to Test Only (never did EQ only, so I wouldn't know. I should probably try it before giving advice than, and let someone who has done an EQ only say, "bro dont do it, even though it wasn't as harsh as my Deca only cycle, it still killed my libido". What if the very next guy says, "I ran and Deca only and an EQ only with no problems, so go right ahead." I guess we just hope someone comes along who knows the biochemistry, trends, and has personal experience with the question asked.
Very few of us would run our cycles under proper controls to determine the clinical effects of running Test only compared to EQ only. We use second hand sources to inductively come up with the most logical answers. I.E. Test is necessary for normal biological functions, EQ doesn't facilliate these biological functions so we can hypothesis the effects of EQ only compared to a Test only cycle. By second-hand studies of the trends in the bodybuilding community we can see if your hypotheses are valid and make further deductions.
What is an ester? How do they work? How are Lipid profiles affected by Nolva, and how does this effect blood pressure?--This is second hand knowledge. And no one here could accurately know these without second hand knowledge. We study clinical studies, the findings of research scientists, and listen to the advice of educated PPL to find the answers to these questions. And many well educated people can answer these question without first hand experience.
Now its time for the compromise. It is my experience that the experienced Bros know what they are talking about because they have tried the substance in question and probably studied on the subject in question, which adds tremendous credibility to their answers. However, I see nothing wrong with providing well founded answers, even if the user has not done the subject in question. Maybe for these situations, it is best to start off with a, from what I have read....
This is just my .02 Maybe I am just being anal because when I get finally get my PharmD (in quite a few years), I would not appreciate someone telling me I am not qualified to offer my advice because I have not had first hand experience with the substance in question. I have got a lot to learn. My first hand experiences are growing more numerous everyday; however, if you wish, I will hold off on any comments when I have no first hand experience. Maybe it will be best to research and get as much second hand knowledge as possible from people with first hand experiences, than when the time is right and I can give my own .02 because I have tried it, whatever it is, myself. Again, I see no problem with someone propogating knowledge, if that someone has done the grunt work to find good knowledge (this makes things easier on all of us trying to research).
If you look at my posts, especially my earlier ones, you will see that I usually give my .02 with a reference or a link (even if I had tried the substance in question). Is that acceptable?
When school starts I will be very involved and it will be harder to spend the same amount of time I have this summer studying strictly about AS. Maybe the community will be better without my advice in the long run because I have yet to try DNP , Drol, Halo and various other compounds. Sorry if I offended anyone. But I have tried my best to not give worthless advice. I do my best to PM PPl with new findings after I have come up with more conclusive evidence. Like the time I told someone that breast tissue wont grow back after glands have been removed (I was wrong, and PM'd the bro with the study that show it can come back. But again, I have never had Gynecomastia surgery so I am going off of second hand knowledge).
I once PM'd Bermich about a time I posted an answer I found on JAMA and PubMed on the effects of Testosterone and Progesterone on sperm production. In the thread, I made myself more clear about the answer as a result (however, on this one I have experience with no condom use (when she was also on the pill) while I was on cycle. Nonetheless, my first hand experience that she didn't get pregnant is worthless compared to secondhand studies of the statistical effectivness of birth control. However, should I have refrained from posting the study because my first-hand knowledge was irrelevant and the bro was not getting a straight answer?
I really dont know, but maybe my rambling will give you bros something else to work with? Any suggestions I am willing to abide by.
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08-02-2004, 02:14 PM #27
great post.
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08-02-2004, 02:17 PM #28
No one is saying theoretical or studied knowledge is impractical or unwanted, just that there are some people that spew out info without that, or practical knowlede of the topic at hand some times. Thus the thread parroting statement that eluded me.
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08-02-2004, 02:20 PM #29Associate Member
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You are right! but the members of whom I speak will lead others to think that it is first
hand.......then 6 weeks later they are posting there first cycle......then later a pic...
(not knocking anyone!!!) but they are 135lbs @ 5'10" and only 19 years old.
For the most part they don't stick around long......but there are more to take there
place......I just think they should be called on it.
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08-02-2004, 02:21 PM #30
Bs Is Bs Thats How I Look At It. Take What U Want Out Of From What U Read And Throw Out The Rest.
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08-02-2004, 02:23 PM #31
That's not a very health approach! To each their own.
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08-02-2004, 02:25 PM #32Originally Posted by dirtdawg
Havent had any experience with that type of EOD prop and Enan cycles. Perhaps that is because by understanding how esters work we can better determine how they will effect plasma levels and therefore hypothesis the best way to run the compounds most efficiently.
For example, did B6 affect your gains? You can only hypothesis, Yes. That is what scientific studies have concluded. It would be near impossible to determine, through trial and error, whether or not b6 affected gains because there are far too many variables. We go by the best most accurate data available and do everything possible to maximize gains. Trial and Error is very sketchy in leading to well founded answers because there are no controls in our little experiments on our own bodies. As a consequence, I will never have first hand experiences with many things because I choose not to find the way by light of trial and error. I will let others pave that path for me and start where they left off.
Einstein had a good post about ED vs EOD props shots, trends with first hand experiences. It worth a read:
http://67.18.108.244//showpost.php?p...8&postcount=39
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08-02-2004, 02:31 PM #33
Good; Thought it be YET ANOTHER post about ultra high doses
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08-02-2004, 02:42 PM #34Originally Posted by BeefCakeStew
fina 75 mgs eod
prop 100 mgs eod
enth 100mgs eod
dont know his ancillaries, but this is advice he got from some bodybuilders, they tried this cycle, and got great gains off it, i have seen those guys, one is 6'4 255 and i am guessing this but under 10% bf, all those guys are aware of the active and half lives of aas, and they knoew how esters work,so he is giving it a try, now this cycle could get flamed by a lot of people,but it is getting flamed by people that havent run it, so who is right and who is wrong
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08-02-2004, 02:54 PM #35
Good thread. Let's not forget the flip side: those with tons of experience who still have no clue.
"my boy at the gym is like 285lbs, and he shoots sust 1x every 2 weeks" "everybody reacts differently"
No they don't....everybody reacts more or less the same. Using AAS will allow you to achieve gains...period. just because you are or have achieved gains, does not mean that there are not a lot more efficient ways of doing so. Like beeffreak said, individual results are pretty meaningless (I'm paraphrasing here). No single person can run enough cycles with any compound to be able to establish a real trend and also account for all the variables.
The "everybody reacts differently" thing seems to be a cop out for someone doing something that doesn't make much sense and then trying to rationalize it..
I'll take the advice of an AR member that's only been here a month over your avergage gym monkey, even if the gym monkey is 300lbs. genetics is the main factor in size. it bothers/scares me how many people think that once you reach 250lbs, you are automatically granted a PhD in human physiology and pharmacokinetics. The people that are so quick to follow every word of a pro or any big guy are likely the ones that haven't spent much time in the gym, because anyone who has spent time in the gym will tell you that the most important factors are: genetics, diet, training....then gear
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08-02-2004, 03:10 PM #36Originally Posted by einstein1905
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08-02-2004, 03:15 PM #37Originally Posted by dirtdawg
I was prompting a response from you to show that it is very difficult to determine, through one persons experience, if this cycle is optimum or not. Again, by looking at it, of course the bro is going to make gains. The Prop and Tren *should* kick in right away because of the short ester, right? As we know Test E has a longer ester, we know that he really wont feel the full effects of the E until after about week 4 (about the time he will reach maintenance). So what is the best way to run E in this cycle? It seems that the Ester is just going to kick in and he'll be at the doses he was looking for only 4wks and then he'll start tapering down again to start PCT 2wks later. For those 2wks his Test levels slowly decrease, but still remain high enough to keep HTPA shut down. So theoretically, his cycle is really 10wks because the ester is still releasing up til, even past, wk 10. However, the dose will be tapering down, so he will have less Test during this time and consequently less protein synthesis, right? Less efficient maybe?
So why not Jumpstart the cycle with Prop during the first 4wks as the test E levels are building up. Then stop the Prop and run only Test E. Finish the last 2-3wks with prop only to allow for the Enan ester to clear, which allows for optimum gains right up til PCT. This way PCT is 10wks away from the first injection, just as proposed in the original plan; however, in this way peak plamsa levels are reached the fasted and maintained the most consistanly right up til PCT. Would it not be best to shoot ED as well, because we know it is best to shoot as frequent as possible for best blood levels?
He is looking for 700mg release a week. To be extra precise, could we calculate the doses of Prop to taper down during the first 4wks as the the Test E levels are releasing more Test than as in the first wk. Or is it better to reach peak levels of somewhere above 700mg during wk4 and taper down to 700mg of E as the Prop ester clears?
All these questions have answers that could be answered fairly well with logic and proper education (there are many bros that have already gone through this dialogue with themselves, another person, or even a book). There are many rubuttals to my reply and I am positive there is an even better way to run it, which is why I left my answer in question form because I know I am not positive. But we can at least give ourselves a good start with logic.
Obviosly, I am taking everything to the extreme. There can be no growth if we do not move toward better answers through dialectics. People will disagree and I will disagree with them. However, I like to argue on an intelligent level, which means I am willing to change my mind when I am wrong. Perhaps this is only because I am young and I know that I know nothing at all. At this time in my life, I believe that all I will ever know is only an opinion of something that vaguely resembles the truth, whatever that is.
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08-02-2004, 03:36 PM #38Originally Posted by BeefCakeStew
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08-02-2004, 03:37 PM #39
You have a good point but there is a lot of info that can be said without having to do it first. Like if someone asked what should they use to combat gyno from their deca only cycle. It's simple to know what they should use wether you've had breasts or not. And if no one with experience has chimed in I'd say it's not bad to advise. But I also say it's good to mention you are not speaking from experience and ask for someone with experience to back it up for you.
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08-02-2004, 03:41 PM #40Originally Posted by Justincase
Were you in the Revolutionary war? World War 2? Probably not but if someone asked you a question about it I bet you could give a pretty good answer. I personally dont know everything about steroids . Some steroids i dont know anything about because i decided i didnt need them at this point. But when the time comes and i want to use them i dont care if the info people provide is first hand or if they heard it from someone else. As long as the information is quality advice I dont care who i hear it from.
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