Thread: Somebody please explain Test
08-05-2004, 01:36 PM #1
Somebody please explain Test
From all the posts I have been reading, it looks like the main reason to use test as a base (other than to gain size, mostly due to water retention) is to prevent your junk to stop working during the cycle. Is this correct? (yes/no)
Can't Proviron address this problem? This would prevent the water retention associated with Test as well, right?
I am just trying to understand the reason Test MUST be run in all cycles. Everyone keeps responding, "Where's the Test?" and no one is explaining the true reason and thinking behind why it should be used. They just say "do some research." Well, when research is done, all I come up with is stuff that is outdated. PLEASE, somebody HELP!!!
08-05-2004, 01:39 PM #2
08-05-2004, 01:40 PM #3
Your body produces test on its own and it has more than one purpose as far as the functioning of your body. You take that away by doing AS and your body will be out a vital hormone.
08-05-2004, 01:45 PM #4Originally Posted by mark956101957
Understood. What sides should you expect without Test? 30 years ago they didn't run Test, and they looked pretty **** good then.
08-05-2004, 01:49 PM #5Senior Member
Originally Posted by Natural Mac
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
08-05-2004, 01:52 PM #6
And i would think u would have bone density problems.
And problems with your vital organs.
08-05-2004, 02:09 PM #7
so why not run test at HRT type doses rather than 400mg+
I know everyone says run test a little higher than any other AAS included in your cycle,
would an HRT type dose (eg 25mg Test Prop E2D) sort out any probs you may get from shutdown? (eg from say a 400mg Eq EW cycle?)
if not why not!!??
08-05-2004, 02:30 PM #8Associate Member
Originally Posted by Soldier of Misfortune
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
08-05-2004, 02:37 PM #9Originally Posted by Natural Mac
There are also the libido issues and potent inhibitory effects on HPTA that the progestins alone can cause, which also can be somewhat alleviated by using test with them.
Something like deca, especially, is very anabolic and not very androgenic at all. However, using it alone shuts down endogenous test production and therefore also DHT. This leaves a person with little to no androgens in the body, which is a prime environment for estrogenic effects to make themselves felt.
08-05-2004, 02:55 PM #10Originally Posted by builtthekid
Post something to back up that rediculous claim.
08-05-2004, 03:07 PM #11Originally Posted by builtthekid
08-05-2004, 03:14 PM #12
IMHO....its all in the food....how much and how clean......test just make things made faster......
08-05-2004, 03:16 PM #13Originally Posted by Russ616
08-05-2004, 03:50 PM #14
It comes down to having a well balanced Androgen to Anabolic hormone ratio. You cant just take mainly Anabolic hormones with mildly Androgenic effects. Not only will you have problems with sex drive but with stamina and energy levels. Whats the point of taking steroids if you dont even feel like working out.
Plus the increased sex drive is great!!!!!
Test is not something that you just use for additional size. And yes there is some bloat but not as bad as some of the other options, D-Bol, Anadrol and such. You can do a D-bol/Deca cycle. I have done it with good success, but I will always use test as my base for any cycle I do from now on. There are alot of cycles you can do without test but I bet if you had experiance with them you would prefer Test base cycles as well.
08-05-2004, 05:02 PM #15Originally Posted by Anhydro78
08-05-2004, 06:06 PM #16
What about Test only cycles? Is this OK?
08-05-2004, 06:12 PM #17
posted by Fcontact on Qualitymuscle
TESTOSTERONE … WHAT DOES IT DO ?
The main androgen focused upon for this discussion is testosterone. But please
realize that almost all synthetic AAS are chemical variants of testosterone and therefore
much of the characteristics apply to them as well. (But not all!) Testosterone has two
distinct characteristics or effects.
First, its anabolic characteristics (tissue building) which express themselves as
increased and accelerated muscle tissue build-up which leads to faster recovery time after
training, illness, and injuries, and to a quicker "regeneration" (I hate that word!) of the
entire body. This is because an anabolic response leads to the promotion of protein
synthesis and tissue repair or increase.
Secondly, androgenic characteristics or effects which are commonly referred to as
secondary male characteristics that promote sexual behavior, libido, development and
maturing of the penis, body hair, beard growth, deeper voice, aggressiveness, and
formation and maturation of sperm. And of course, as any pubescent boy will tell you,
increased production of the sebaceous gland and pimples.
As mentioned before, circulatory levels of testosterone also effect HPTA function,
so I should not list it as a characteristic unless I also list pretty much every other sexhormone
When discussing the characteristics of testosterone or its androgen cousins and
synthetic AAS relatives, it is important to understand the difference between free (or
active) testosterone and bound (or inactive) testosterone/AAS (Anabolic/Androgenic
Steroids ). Bound testosterone is inactive because it is bound to SHBG (Sex Hormone
Binding Globulin) and to a lesser degree, albumin. The sex-steroid molecules are bound
by SHBG contained in the blood, which prevents them from fitting into their receptors.
That will be explained later. Free (unbound/active) testosterone is able to transmit its
characteristics because it fits into receptors. Bound testosterone equals about 97-99% of
total testosterone circulation while free testosterone equals 1-3% of total testosterone.
That probably does not sound like much, but even 0.1-0.3 mg of free testosterone has a
whole lot of individual separate molecules. And 1 molecule can activate every receptorsite
it binds to.
Males have a total testosterone reference range of 225-950 ng/dl (nanograms per
decaliter). And a free testosterone reference range for males is 1-3% of the total
testosterone reference range. Females have a total testosterone reference range of 14-76
ng/dl and a free testosterone reference range of 0.5-1.8 ng/dl.
Bound testosterone can be unbound due to metabolic requirements and different
steroid molecules. And both endogenous and exogenous AAS can react differently to
SHBG. For this reason some synthetic AAS can alter the ratio for any other free and/or
bound androgenic levels.
*As can prohormones and some minerals such as zinc, copper, and magnesium.
Most steroid molecules are specific to their respective cell receptors. This means
only testosterone/androgen/AAS molecules can fit into (and transmit their respective
message) testosterone/androgen receptor-sites. This is due to shape and size much like a
key and a lock: Some keys can fit into other locks, but only the right key can fit in and
activate the mechanism. Steroid molecules travel through the blood stream and
lymphatic system. This means that everywhere blood goes, the molecules are sure to
follow. Using muscle cells as an example, testosterone molecules circulate until they
come into contact with testosterone/androgen receptor-sites on the muscle cell. Then
they lock together and they form a complex called (what else?) a steroid / receptor
complex. Now the complex travels to the cell nucleus where it can bond to specific
sequences on the nucleic acid sections of desoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). Here is where a
transcription happens and a template of the DNA is created, resulting in messenger
ribonucleic acid (mRNA). The mRNA exits the cell nucleus and bonds to/with RNA in
the liquid part of the cell called the cytoplasm. Here a translation of the message takes
place and an increase in protein synthesis occurs. There is a correlating decrease in
catabolism as well. This is because testosterone molecules can occupy cortisol receptorsites
and block them. Therefore cortisol can not get in to transmit its message. The
results are growth! A simple way of looking at this is… you go to someone's house to
deliver a message and their mom relays it exactly so the job gets done. Sorry about the
techno-geek info, but it helps later.
*It should be noted that different labs in different places use slightly different reference
ranges. As example 300-1000ng/dl is a common male reference range used by my local lab.
08-05-2004, 06:12 PM #18
08-05-2004, 06:52 PM #19
anybody??.....or is this a stupid question
08-05-2004, 08:25 PM #20
Natural Mac, I suppose that would work as well as a D-bol/Deca cycle. But trust me I have been there Testosterone is the way to go. I have had a couple mistake cycles under my belt and Now I know that I want testosterone to be the base of my cycles. Is there a reason you are trying to avoid Testosterone??? maybe side effects??? Most side effects can be dealt with.
I have heard of guys taking winstrol /equipoise cycles and they swear they do great on them. All though I have heard a few that have energy problems which is what I suspected. I wouldnt try it. And I think that the people that go this route have very different goals than me. Because I dont consider 5-7lb lean muscle gain all that impressive.
I have not taken Stanzolol but from what I read from profiles and articles. It is a precursor to DHT. Which would give it a Androgenic effect. Who is Ben Johnson ???
Quez 82 good post!!!!!!!!
08-05-2004, 08:32 PM #21
08-05-2004, 08:39 PM #22Originally Posted by Soldier of Misfortune
08-05-2004, 08:52 PM #23
Winstrol is also bad on your tendons when taken by itself. It hardens them making them more brittle. And it also increases collagen synthesis but doesnt increase cross linking integrity. Cycling Stanzolol with Testosterone alone only makes this worse.
Its an intresting claim, but I do agree to a certain extent. I ussually ate/worked out/cycled like a power lifter. well when my fat% got too high and my cardiovascular system was weak. I feel that when I began a cycle it stressed me more than when I was younger and leaner( more athletic). I will always try to keep my cardiovascular system up to par from now on. DO I think I messed myself up???No But I do think it hidered my progress with my cycle, yes.
Theres no telling what hes talking about. There is alot of reasons I can think of why not to cycle before you have workout/diet experiance. Which im not gonna put an age/time frame or any other conditions on it. You know when you know what you are doing.
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