Year Round, Short Cycling..

[dieseL atC]

It seems like there has been alot of discussion about short cycling and I posted this on another thread but got no replies. I'm very interested in the whole theory, and I'm probably going to give it a try in the near future. Anyways, I just want to know what you MODS/Vets think. This was taken from Dizzy over at Extreme-Athlete.com:


YEAR ROUND CYCLING
This is an idea for a four week on four week off, year round cycle plan. This plan will not be for everyone. It is devised for those who tend to get their best gains within the first four weeks of their cycles...like I do. You could also do six on...four off. Or eight on four off if you think your hardcore enough and can really use a year round cycle where your on twice as long as off.

The idea behind year round cycling has gotten me thinking recently. What would be a good way to cycle year round without putting that much stress on the body? A way to still follow the basic principles of cycling (things like time on = time off). Still divide your year into cut, bulk, and maintenence as well. What I've come up with is a four weeks on/off cycle. I plan on putting this method to use real soon but I'd like to know what you guys think of it. Gonna be expensive...lol

First off...Picking the AAS
I have to be rational and leave deca out of the mix. It is simply too hard on HPTA. There's no way you could recover from using a long acting nandrolone steriod within a month. Which brings me to my next qualification of roids. All of them must me fast acting. These steriods must be out of the system immediately after quitting them or the drugs used to stimulate LH will serve no purpose on my time off. I'm guessing fast acting nandrolone and/or fina could be used...if used rationally and at the beginning of the year. This narrows down the playing field a great deal and should make our life alot easier. I would simply stick to dbol for bulking and winstrol for cutting as far as orals go. To be perfectly honest...you could pick test and an oral and run with it. Just a gram of test and dbol the first half of the year...then test and winstrol the second half of the year. Extremely simple and I'm sure would be effective. It would also be more cost effective.

Good possible choices
testosterone propionate or suspension
primo
tren (beginning of the year only)
eq no ester
nandrolone or nandrolone phenylprop (beginning of the year only)
dbol
winstrol
anavar
anadrol

And of course running GH throught the entire time would be ideal. If you can only afford it during part of the time...let it be during part of the cutting phase of the plan. Also of course running other cutting supplements you may like to use like clen , ECA, ect.. And any supps you use during normal cycle should be used here as well. To see supps I like to use check here. The only difference is in this case you will need alot more of it.

http://www.extreme-athlete.com/foru...s=&threadid=107

http://www.extreme-athlete.com/foru...s=&threadid=108

Bridges
Bridging during the time off would not be a bad idea...especially in the cutting phase of the year, using low doses of primo or anavar.

Doses
This is all personal of course. You may find you need to increase the doses as you go along. You might not. Of course if you don't have to...then don't do it.

You could really run eq no ester every month your on. I didn't add it in because your already getting 1770mg of hormone in a week. But if there were two drugs that I would make a standard base out of it would be test and eq no ester. As you see the test is already there. HCG will be added the last two weeks of the final two phases of the year.

All the bs about switching esters in order to continue to make gains is not true. This simply does not make sense and never really has. Switching from prop to suspension to enanthate , ect will have no effect on gains IMO. All it will effect is the release time of the depot.


Month 1 (bulk phase 1)

testosterone prop or suspension 100mg ed
nandrolone or nandrolone phenylprop 75mg ed
dbol 35mg ed
slin 10IU post workout

Month 2 (off)

anavar 20mg ed
first three weeks - clomid 50mg ed, nolvadex 20mg ed

Month 3 (bulk phase 2)

test prop or suspension 100mg ed
nandrolone or nandrolone phenylprop 75mg ed
dbol 35mg ed
slin 10IU post workout

Month 4 (off)

primo 200mg a week
first three weeks - clomid 50mg ed, nolvadex 20mg ed

Month 5 (bulk phase 3)

test prop or suspension 100mg ed
tren 75mg ed
dbol 35mg ed
slin 10IU post workout

Month 6 (off)

anavar 20mg ed
first three weeks - clomid 50mg ed, nolvadex 20mg ed

Month 7 (cutting phase 1)

test prop 100mg ed
tren 75mg ed
winstrol 50mg ed

Month 8 (off)

primo 200mg a week
first three weeks - clomid 50mg ed, nolvadex 20mg ed, femara 1.25mg eod

Month 9 (cutting phase 2)

test prop 100mg ed
eq no ester 100mg ed
winstrol 50mg ed
last two weeks...HCG 500IU ed

Month 10 (off)

anavar 20mg ed
first three weeks - clomid 50mg ed, nolvadex 20mg ed, femara 1.25mg eod

Month 11 (final stage)

test prop 100mg ed
eq no ester 100mg ed
winstrol 50mg ed
last two weeks...HCG 500IU ed

Month 12 (off)

ALL FOUR WEEKS
clomid 50mg ed
nolvadex 20mg ed
femara 1.25mg eod

If anyone would like to see a six on or eight on year rounder let me know and I'll devise one. Also...if you'd like to see a certain combo of drugs...just say the word and I'll write more cycles up. Thats just how I'd do it.

[dieseL atC]

bump

[Alexander the Graet]

well I plan on a 6 or 8 week short cycle! a friend of mine has been doing this for 1 year and has gained 6 to 10 lba on every cycle without any water retention. same time on as off is the rule he uses for 6 to 8 weeks depending on gear availability! cycles consist of test prop 100day
fina 75day
deca phenyl prop 350wk
and anavar 40 day

last time I saw him he was 172 at 5'9 that was about 9 months ago now he is 202 very solid and cut! r these short cycles the way to go to avoid serious sides and to keep more lean mass? by his results i think so!

[NJou812]

Bump, I was thinking of a very similar batch of short cycles using Prop ED (350mg/week), NP ED(300mg/week) and 30mg Var ED. I thought 3-4 weeks on, then 3-4 weeks off, repeat.
I know most people here feel short cycles are a waste of time, but I'd like to hear some feedabck on people that have actually tried as opposed to pure theory based comments.

PS - I thought that one of the benefits of short cycles (under 4 weeks) was that your HTPA wouldn't shut down (not enough time with AS in the system to trigger full shutdown through the feedback loop) so you could get away with no clomid, just a week of Proviron at 25mg/ed. Thoughts?

[damiongage]

see my cycle on BDBB

[NJou812]

Damion - "BDBB"?

[damiongage]

Damion - "BDBB"?

www.bigdogbodybuilding.com

it is under members cycles

[bluethunder]

If anything Proviron is a AI best used during not after

[Flasher]

Alexander the Graet....spelt your name wrong bro. G-r-e-a-t, great.

[damiongage]

Alexander the Graet....spelt your name wrong bro. G-r-e-a-t, great.

[Alexander the Graet]

[quote]

[Anhydro78]

Proviron isnt hard on the HTPA and it helps you keep your gains after PCT.

I dont like the idea of very short or very long cycles. Even with a fast acting steroid your body still has to take time to adjust, and then it starts conditioning itself for optimal growth.The pump that is obtained in the first four weeks is what makes for keepable gains during the rest of your cycle. I feel like its after the initial pump that then you start to hammer out keepable gains. I dont like to cycle too long either, Ive made this mistake and ended spending more time than I wanted regain a normalized hormonal axis. Which resulted in loosing most of the weight I fought so hard to gain.

[RoNNy THe BuLL]

A thumbs up in my book. The whole thing with short cycling isn't so much your gear, but your PCT. If you got the basic Clomid and HCG on hand, you're good to go.

[einstein1905]

Proviron isnt hard on the HTPA and it helps you keep your gains after PCT.

40% of a study of 250 men experienced HPTA inhibition using proviron . It is inhibitive, and using it during pct would be the worst time to gamble with it. it's a great compund during a cycle, but off cycle, there's no reason to gamble like that.

Short cycles were popular in the past, because people didn't have a clue when it came to pct. PCT used to consist of proviron and HCG . We now know that HCG is beneficial PRIOR to pct, and that a pct including clomid, nolva and a low dose AI is extremely efficient at restoring HPTA.
There's a very good reason why average cycle lengths ar egetting longer and longer instead of shorter.
It was mentioned before that someone gained ~30lbs during 9 months of short cycles. A 12-15 week cycle could put that kind of mass on someone and allow them to be starting another cycle within that same time frame.

The "less sides" that people are alluding to with shorter cycles are relative to what? No countermeasures? Water retention is a joke.....if you can't figure out how to control that, then you've got some reading to do. acne is controllable by a number of various simple measures. hairloss is cummulative, so it's the overall period of time exposed to supraphysiological androgen levels, be it many short cycles or one or two long cycles.


You will suppress HPTA during a 4 week cycle, as suppression is all relative, but saying that clomid is unnecessary is far from accurate.

I see no advantages to short cycles versus long cycles.

ShortER cycles with coasting periods in between is a different issue, but actual short cycles don't make sense to me.

[Anhydro78]

Really 40% that is high. I have read several articles on other sites that basically said it had little if no impact on the HTPA. I have used it between cycles with good success. Or what I thought was success. Anyways I believe you, you have set me straight a couple times allready.

[Alexander the Graet]

I like six week on fro shor cycles and six weeks off! first three weeks post cycle PCT
u can use calen the first two weeks of PCT to Help keep gains and lean mass the two off and then the last two on then u r ready to do another 6 weeker in a year u can do 4 cycles like this which will be equivalent to 6 months on and six off same as if u are 3 months on and three off with long 12 week cycles> There is an advantage to short cycles even do a lot of people think they r usles. In a typical 12 to 16 week cycle with long esters u cant start PCT right away but u have to wait at least 2 to 3 weeks depending on the gear and then do PCT fro at least 4 to 6 weeks thats already clost to 20 weeks plust at least 2 months off and expect to lose some of that 30 to 35 lbs of gains! am not saying long cycles r not goog they work but different from short! ina six week cycles u can star PCT 2 to 3 days after and recover in 2 to 3 weeks> gains can be up tp 15 lean LBS if diet is good and clean with less sides and most of the time Keepable!

[Alexander the Graet]

40% of a study of 250 men experienced HPTA inhibition using proviron . It is inhibitive, and using it during pct would be the worst time to gamble with it. it's a great compund during a cycle, but off cycle, there's no reason to gamble like that.

Short cycles were popular in the past, because people didn't have a clue when it came to pct. PCT used to consist of proviron and HCG . We now know that HCG is beneficial PRIOR to pct, and that a pct including clomid, nolva and a low dose AI is extremely efficient at restoring HPTA.
There's a very good reason why average cycle lengths ar egetting longer and longer instead of shorter.
It was mentioned before that someone gained ~30lbs during 9 months of short cycles. A 12-15 week cycle could put that kind of mass on someone and allow them to be starting another cycle within that same time frame.

The "less sides" that people are alluding to with shorter cycles are relative to what? No countermeasures? Water retention is a joke.....if you can't figure out how to control that, then you've got some reading to do. acne is controllable by a number of various simple measures. hairloss is cummulative, so it's the overall period of time exposed to supraphysiological androgen levels, be it many short cycles or one or two long cycles.


You will suppress HPTA during a 4 week cycle, as suppression is all relative, but saying that clomid is unnecessary is far from accurate.

I see no advantages to short cycles versus long cycles.

ShortER cycles with coasting periods in between is a different issue, but actual short cycles don't make sense to me.