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  1. #1
    durkheim's Avatar
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    19 and ready to juice

    Need some advice from the knowledgable bros on this board.

    Heres a little background before I get the eat right and train comments:

    I started out at 135lb. I'm now just over 6" tall, have been training for just over 3 years and weigh ~180lb. The reason I'm considering the juice is because I've been dealt a really ****ty hand in terms of genetics. I have a small case of pubertal gyno, fat distribution which I think is estrogen mediated (around the chest and stomach) with a very narrow shoulder structure.

    I am considering this cycle

    week 1-12 500mg Test enan
    week 1-15 20mg nolva (or a small dose of arimidex , would like to hear opinions)

    week 15-18 40mg nolva for 3 days then 20mg until week 18
    week 15-18 150mg nolva for 3 days then 50mg until week 18

    *I've also been thinking about using nolva alone as it is chemically very similar to clomid, has a higher affinity to the estrogen receptor and does not produce the clomid related side effects. Can anyone add to this?


    My major concerns at this point are developmental side effects. I already have a narrow shoulder structure so I will be dissapointed if any width I would have later gained is going to be prematurely cut off.

    What I would particularly like to hear from you guys is where can I find useful information about AAS and teenage developmental side effects (please dont tell me to google it, I couldnt find anything useful).

    Also if anyone has any experiences using at this age would help too.


    Cheers
    D

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Need some advice from the knowledgable bros on this board.

    Heres a little background before I get the eat right and train comments:

    I started out at 135lb. I'm now just over 6" tall, have been training for just over 3 years and weigh ~180lb. The reason I'm considering the juice is because I've been dealt a really ****ty hand in terms of genetics. I have a small case of pubertal gyno, fat distribution which I think is estrogen mediated (around the chest and stomach) with a very narrow shoulder structure.

    I am considering this cycle

    week 1-12 500mg Test enan
    week 1-15 20mg nolva (or a small dose of arimidex , would like to hear opinions)

    week 15-18 40mg nolva for 3 days then 20mg until week 18
    week 15-18 150mg nolva for 3 days then 50mg until week 18

    *I've also been thinking about using nolva alone as it is chemically very similar to clomid, has a higher affinity to the estrogen receptor and does not produce the clomid related side effects. Can anyone add to this?


    My major concerns at this point are developmental side effects. I already have a narrow shoulder structure so I will be dissapointed if any width I would have later gained is going to be prematurely cut off.

    What I would particularly like to hear from you guys is where can I find useful information about AAS and teenage developmental side effects (please dont tell me to google it, I couldnt find anything useful).

    Also if anyone has any experiences using at this age would help too.


    Cheers
    D

    19 is too young big guy.. wait until around 22-23ryrs old. your growth plates might not be closed yet.. yes you can do some damage at that age.. work on your diet and excersize routine. just b/c you have lifted for 3 years really doesnt mean **** imo.. esp if you are not doing it right..also your test levels havent leveled out yet either. use that to your advantage bro. peace

  3. #3
    Russ616's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Need some advice from the knowledgable bros on this board.

    Heres a little background before I get the eat right and train comments:

    I started out at 135lb. I'm now just over 6" tall, have been training for just over 3 years and weigh ~180lb. The reason I'm considering the juice is because I've been dealt a really ****ty hand in terms of genetics. I have a small case of pubertal gyno, fat distribution which I think is estrogen mediated (around the chest and stomach) with a very narrow shoulder structure.

    I am considering this cycle

    week 1-12 500mg Test enan
    week 1-15 20mg nolva (or a small dose of arimidex , would like to hear opinions)

    week 15-18 40mg nolva for 3 days then 20mg until week 18
    week 15-18 150mg nolva for 3 days then 50mg until week 18

    *I've also been thinking about using nolva alone as it is chemically very similar to clomid, has a higher affinity to the estrogen receptor and does not produce the clomid related side effects. Can anyone add to this?


    My major concerns at this point are developmental side effects. I already have a narrow shoulder structure so I will be dissapointed if any width I would have later gained is going to be prematurely cut off.

    What I would particularly like to hear from you guys is where can I find useful information about AAS and teenage developmental side effects (please dont tell me to google it, I couldnt find anything useful).

    Also if anyone has any experiences using at this age would help too.


    Cheers
    D
    Clomid is neccessary to restore the hpta. Nolva by itself it no good. Also ldex is not a replacement for nolva. . . They are taken together for the most part.

    AS FOR YOUR CYCLE WAIT ANOTHER 2 YEARS AND LET YOUR BODY GAIN NATURALLY FOR NOW. There is no way in hell you hit a natural genetic peak... NOT POSSIBLE>>>

  4. #4
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    I have a question, which is quite related:

    Because his groth platelets may not be fused, can this severely inhibit his shoulder width growth, or simply his height? (Can he still get wider in the nest few years)....

    (I noticed his comments on his narrow shoulder width)

  5. #5
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    19 = Too young.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    I have a question, which is quite related:

    Because his groth platelets may not be fused, can this severely inhibit his shoulder width growth, or simply his height? (Can he still get wider in the nest few years)....

    (I noticed his comments on his narrow shoulder width)

    from what my doc told me yeah. it goes for heighth and width..

  7. #7
    Russ616's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hung-solo
    from what my doc told me yeah. it goes for heighth and width..
    THis is true but not in all cases...But the fact still remains that this KID is too young...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ616
    THis is true but not in all cases...But the fact still remains that this KID is too young...

    true. seems like this kid is pretty smart hopefully he will make the right decision.

  9. #9
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    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left

  10. #10
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    Bro...
    I am the same age as you.. and nearly everyone here has this opinion..
    Sorry to hear that you were once in such a position, however, I am glad you are in that no longer...
    Most people sayin that you are too young, are simply looking out for YOUR best interest.. as using AS too young can be severely detrimental, and can hinder you forever...
    If you decide to go ahead and use AS, I pray you do as much research as possible, and avoid as many sides as you can... good luck bro...

  11. #11
    sauceman is offline Junior Member
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    yeah you already know what people think about your age but it sounds like you are dead set on doing it even knowing the consequences... all i can say is good idea with a test only for a first timer , at least you arent being stupid with a lot of compounds. definitley get clomid for your pct. you said you have a slight case of existing gyno then i would get some ldex which will prevent aromatization(conversion to estrogen). but istill wouldnt reccommend it at 19, but to each his own!
    good luck bro

  12. #12
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    i was skinny as a pin til i was 22 i was 6'3" and 165 lbs by the time i was 23 i was 6'3" 225 lb i didnt do anything . my body just decided to fill out at that time. 19 is just too young for your body to be done naturally. aas will always be available there is no since in getting in a hurry.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left

    man it sounds like there are issues going on here bro... dont use a.s. to make yourself happy better yet any drug for that matter.. anyone that is knowledgable about a.s. will tell you to wait a few years. you have more of a chance for long term damage at that age. we are just trying to help you man not diss you cuz of your age.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    If you don't want advice then don't ask for anyone's opinion. They've already stated why you should still wait a couple of years before using gear. You're only 19. There's absolutely no way in hell that this is all you have left. You're body is still growing and you're natural test levels are still really high. Work with it while you still can.

  15. #15
    sauceman is offline Junior Member
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    ever consider pro-hormones bro??

    creatine and tribulus shakes can do wonders at 19 also.

    give it a try first!! you have a long time to experiement with drugs, once you do its another world!!! just give it time man! honestly i wish i waited! but some learn the hard way.

    goodluck

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    You have already gotten the best advice you're going to get here............ Keep hitting the wieghts hard, eat and rest for at least a few more years because at 6' 180lbs you still need to put on more mass before running a cycle.

  17. #17
    durkheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauceman
    ever consider pro-hormones bro??

    creatine and tribulus shakes can do wonders at 19 also.

    give it a try first!! you have a long time to experiement with drugs, once you do its another world!!! just give it time man! honestly i wish i waited! but some learn the hard way.

    goodluck
    Yea I've looked into PH's but they shutdown the hpta just as bad and are less effective, the only positive thing I can see going for PH's is their legality.. even that is going to be compromised now.

    Then theres the added risk of prolactin/ progesterone induced sides which nolva wont help..


    Why do you wish you waited?

    Atm, the only side effect I am worried about is a growth in width. But I have decided I will take that risk


    Thanks for everyones contributions I appreciate the comments. I guess if this is everything that you guys can offer me.. I'll do some more research and then start my cycle in a few weeks.

  18. #18
    durkheim's Avatar
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    One more thing.. I dont understand these comments about how I'm not ready because I'm at 180lb.

    My goal is not to reach my genetic potential and then juice to get a supraphysiological physique. Its to gain mass in the most effective way using all the tools I can.

    I know you're all trying to help and I thank you once again. I respect your opinions

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    Juice isn't the solution, counseling is.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV-1
    Juice isn't the solution, counseling is.
    Yeah I could see that one coming.

    Truth is bro, I dont have any mental condition or depression which counselling is going to help me with.

    I have huge ambitions and have accomplished a lot in my life so far, my body is the only thing I dont have complete control over.. this irritates me beyond comprehension.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Yeah I could see that one coming.

    Truth is bro, I dont have any mental condition or depression which counselling is going to help me with.
    Says who? You or a qualified professional?


    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    I have huge ambitions and have accomplished a lot in my life so far, my body is the only thing I dont have complete control over.. this irritates me beyond comprehension.
    Juicing will not give you complete control over your body. You can achieve what you want at this point without taking steroids .

    In your own words: "My goal is not to reach my genetic potential and then juice to get a supraphysiological physique. Its to gain mass in the most effective way using all the tools I can."

    What you want is a quick fix and don't care whether you fu*k yourself up in the process (and you probably will).

    Seek counseling.

  22. #22
    bluethunder is offline Anabolic Member
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    45lbs in 3 yrs is great! I believe you should continue what you have been doing. Sounds to me you genetics are not as bad as you think..

  23. #23
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    My cousin is your age and he has no where near reached his genetic potential. listen to these bros, they know what they are talking about. no good will come of a cycle.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    Seriously guys..

    Please stop telling me I'm too young.. I was at a point in my life where ending things did not make me the slightest bit anxious or scared not too long ago. I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    Bro, be careful with this kind of attitude. Jumping into aas SHOULD make you anxious, and maybe even a little scared. Do yourself a favor, and wait. The AAS control act that is before congress right now is based on people with your attitude/age group that really mess themselves up for life on aas. Don't stop hitting the iron, but you are making great natural gains, be proud of them, and keep going. When you are 23, 24, 25, then think about going dark. You will be near done naturally at that point.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV-1
    Says who? You or a qualified professional?



    Juicing will not give you complete control over your body. You can achieve what you want at this point without taking steroids .

    In your own words: "My goal is not to reach my genetic potential and then juice to get a supraphysiological physique. Its to gain mass in the most effective way using all the tools I can."

    What you want is a quick fix and don't care whether you fu*k yourself up in the process (and you probably will).

    Seek counseling.

    I have lost faith in medical professionals.. one of the 3 endocrinologists I have seen referred me to a psychiatrist who told me theres nothing wrong but he'll give me paxil "so you dont have to worry about anything at all"

    I'm not trying to convince anyone here that what I'm doing is right.. but my goal is to gain around 20lb of LBM from a test only cycle. All I'm seeking is advice on the above cycle now

    As for fvcking myself up in the process.. theres nothing I'm going to fvck up besides a possible chance to grow a few inches wider.

  26. #26
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    Brother I'm going to try and be as objective on this as possible and come up with some GOOD advice.

    First off, in the Carpe Diem/Mental Health Dept. ...Tomorrow is no place for your better days; many of us have probably found this out the hard way at some point in life...and some people find out too late... the fact is that there is a possibility that tomorrow may never come. LIVE THE DAY!

    That being said: AAS is not a treatment for depression bro, you gotta get your mental game worked out yourself. Find things like lifting that you are just as passionate about, and do them. Lifting and bodybuilding should not be your only release; you never know when you won't be able to lift b/c of injury--other circumstances...and if it's all you got you will fall into a deeper depression. Also, I find in hard times people are usually the best remedy. Surround yourself with people you care about, and people that care about you, no matter how big you are or how good you look. Professional Psychological guidance is always an option, THEY REALLY DO HELP, but if you've tried it before and it got you nowhere I understand your frustration. In my personal experience, I recommend avoiding Psychiatrists (able to write scripts) as I don't believe in treating mental illness with drugs.

    Second, in the You're Too Young Dept... I agree with the bros that at your age and size you are not at your natural limit. I also believe that you will gain more satisfaction and positive mental attitude in the end by taking control and gaining further naturally WITH DISCIPLINE and SELF-CONTROL. The problem with drugs is that when you're on them you feel better, but you're given a new standard to live by...so when you're off them you feel even worse. This is true of all things pleasurable; whether it be exercise, sex, food/anything that feels good.

    That being said: should you still decide to juice don't go overboard just because of your nothing to lose attitude. Your cycle looks good as a moderate well thought out plan/dosage. If you've had gyno sensitivity in the past it is important to monitor any estrogen reactivity closely...definitely try to have some Arimidex for worst case scenario but use much more sparingly than the estro-site blockers.

    My only other recommendation is to definitely include Clomid post cycle, and here's why: Clomid affects the estrogen receptor as does Nolva however differs in its affinity for the receptor sites in the Hypo/Pituitary which are some of the primary agents of natural test inhibition. Clomid is therefore necessary and much more effective in Hypo-Pituit-Test-Axis restoration than Nolva.

    Any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask or PM. I trust you will make a well-informed decision balancing all the given circumstances.

    Remember bro, Hard times build character...(Read the profile for the full quote)

    Peace!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    As for fvcking myself up in the process.. theres nothing I'm going to fvck up besides a possible chance to grow a few inches wider.
    Isn't this exactly what you are trying to use aas to do? Why not do it naturally, and then use the aas to get over the top? I turn 25 in less than a month, have never done an aas cycle, and I am 5'10" and 200lbs pretty lean. My genetics are not great, but my work ethic is. Things will come, make up for your genetics a little later on. Give it 3 years and see what happens. You are making awesome gains bro, regardless of age, without aas. Just keep making them!

  28. #28
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    Correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt stomach fat storage the male pattern area? The legs and ass are usually female?

  29. #29
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    Hey not to argue with anyone here.... but I started my first cycle when I was 19... im 20 now.. and I don't really see anything but positive from it... I also started out at about 230lbs but I don't think I would have not done it because of where I was.... fact is.. he MAY be able to put on 10-15lbs a year naturally but he could probably get a good 20-25 out of one good cycle if he did it right.... and as far as your test being high??? Those levels are microscopic in comparison to what they are on AAS... Let's not lie to the guy here... it might not be the smartest thing in the world to do... but more than likely hes not gonna die and he'll be okay... more importantly... hes gonna do it and he should be given some good advice... Only take 10 mg Nolva a day durring your cycle... 20mg during PCT.. .25mg Arimidex if you choose to use it.... Use clomid for your PCT... I read that same article about Nolvadex having the same effects as clomid... don't buy it.. use Clomid... You'll be fine...

  30. #30
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    are endocrine problems not somthing to worry about when a 19 yr old uses AAS? Cant AAS at that age put you at risk of your body never getting its test levels as high as it was before usage?

  31. #31
    sauceman is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04
    are endocrine problems not somthing to worry about when a 19 yr old uses AAS? Cant AAS at that age put you at risk of your body never getting its test levels as high as it was before usage?
    i have heard that a lot, not sure of its truth tho. anyone?

  32. #32
    UnNaturalBuff is offline Member
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    lmao, how many 18 and 19yrlds think they are "ready" to juice. I waited till 22 and I'm still kinda nervous it was too early, though I am a foot taller then my mom and 6" taller then my pops, and at age 15 I grew a beard and looked so good I was able to buy alchol if I threw on my carhardt. It's your body bro, but I'm sure after a few shot's you'll get really nervous that you may have fvcked up and it's too late to turn around.l

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluethunder
    45lbs in 3 yrs is great! I believe you should continue what you have been doing. Sounds to me you genetics are not as bad as you think..


    Truer words were never spoken - Bro listen to us - 19 is too young - if you want to put on 20 lbs it sounds like you only need to keep eating and training for about 18 more months at your current rate of gain. You will shortchange yourself in the long run if you do something now

  34. #34
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    is this also true-at 6ft 180= not enough musclemass, thus not enough androgen recepters- so he will not be getting all he could have out of the roids had he waited ?

  35. #35
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    wait! its too young. I am not much older than you and I wish I would of waited.

  36. #36
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    wait till you can buy beer is a good rule for age

  37. #37
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    As for fvcking myself up in the process.. theres nothing I'm going to fvck up besides a possible chance to grow a few inches wider.
    I beg to differ. You need to read this reply

    There is a whole lot more to it than growth plates. And most males don't stop developing until they're in their 20s (23-25 y/o). You got time bro.

    If you don't like yourself now, taking steroids is not going to help that.

    chance
    Last edited by chances; 08-20-2004 at 08:02 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    I resorted to the iron game and have given it more dedication than you can ever imagine. This is all I have left
    If this were true than you would do it the right way. I think SV-1 has it nailed on the head here.

  39. #39
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    the title of your post is an oxymoron

  40. #40
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    Bro, you're just being impulsive about wanting to do it. Personally, I don't give a **** what you do with yourself, but you know you shouldn't be touching the stuff so make the call. Just ask yourself one thing. When I'm 30 am I going to regret that decision I made when I was 19? Think long term about this game of bodybuilding and working out.

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