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  1. #1
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Experienced users: Testosterone-only vs. Stacking

    Disclaimer:
    The comments that follow are not for beggining steroid users. These are for users that have slowly worked up to moderate or high doses or are already experimenting with moderate to high doses. I still believe users should use low doses AT LEAST for their first 3 or 4 cycles.

    Testosterone is the king of steroids . All other steroids are just imitations of it with manipulations to make a steroid more androgenic or anabolic . As we all know, steroids are called Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids (AAS), since no one has been able to fully eliminate the androgenic or anabolic component of a steroid. So...Why not (1) use just testosterone at mid to high doses and cut out stacking all the other wanna-be testosterones like Deca, EQ and Anavar and (2) just use diet and harding agents after bulking cycles to get the hardened look you may want?

    If you're stacking weekly doses of 400mg of testosterone cypionate with 300mg of deca , why not just use 700mg of testosterone and skip the deca dick?

    I've chatted with about 5 competitive bodybuilders over the last 6 months and it seems that most of them are running high dose test-only cycles during the off-season (bulking cycles). The others are running moderate to high dose stacks for bulking. (AGAIN--I'm talking about seasoned competitors, not fathers and sons who have full time jobs, school and a big social life who fit lifting in on the side and have not made a serious dedication to nutrition, rest and workout intensity. These bodybuilders I'm talking about have dedicated their lives to lifting and growing).

    I know that some drugs harden people up and others help you carry less weight, but if you're out to bulk, wouldn't using just testosterone and a few ancillary drugs (anti-e's to manage lipids and water weight) be the best route?

    I know some people will mention that EQ and other steroids seem to give more "keepable gains." To that I say this: If you slap on good mass on a test-only cycle, eat well and lift well between cycles, why wouldn't you be able to keep much of your gains? I think the people who loose a lot of weight between cycles, are probably loosing water weight and then becoming unmotivated between the rush (or "high") of being on a steroid cycle.

    Comments?

  2. #2
    DoctaBig's Avatar
    DoctaBig is offline Member
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    what about tren ???

    seems like pretty concrete evidence of it's potential effects that surpass those of testosterone ???

    Other than that i agree

  3. #3
    AnabolicAlien Guest

    sort of agree

    i agree.

    i've run mostly high dose test for my first 3 cycles and have made incredible gains.

    for the next one i'm cutting down the test and adding deca . i was taking 3.5 grams of test a week. a pro power lifter i work out with sometimes told me the same thing.

    then i'm running fina after.

    a.a.

  4. #4
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicAlien
    i agree.

    i've run mostly high dose test for my first 3 cycles and have made incredible gains.

    for the next one i'm cutting down the test and adding deca . i was taking 3.5 grams of test a week. a pro power lifter i work out with sometimes told me the same thing.

    then i'm running fina after.

    a.a.
    AA,

    I'm glad you agree. However, I must say, that I'm against running high doses for initial cycles. I prefer to see people grow as much as they can on lower doses before launching into high doses.

    Most people are not going to get much more than 10-25lbs out of a cycle. Anything over that range is either a one in a million freak of nature or a lot of FAT and WATER WEIGHT. So, why not start with low to moderate doses and gain 10-25lbs per cycle, then slowly increase to higher doses. You'll save money and possibly a lot of side effects doing it this way. But I digress...

    Either way, I'm glad you responded to this thread, AA.

  5. #5
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    usualsuspect is offline Anabolic Member
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    Many people get caught up in adding different compounds to their cycles just to enjoy the main features different compounds are noted for. For example, a lot of people add EQ to their cycle just for its vascularity effects. D-bol and var are added for strength. Tren for added strength and weight. Winny and masteron for hardness. Deca for joints and so on. But the bottom line is, if your simply looking to grow or change your body composition in any different way, all that you really need for a cycle is TEST combined with a superb nutrition and workout regimen.

  6. #6
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Nice addition, US.

    Anyone out there against using Test-only cycles? I want to hear from both sides.

  7. #7
    Sustman is offline Junior Member
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    My cycle that I am running right now is:
    1-4 55mg d-bol ed
    1-12 1000mgs test e

    I am happy as hell that I went with a gram of test a week versus test/eq or test/deca . I am loving this cycle and I think I will stick to mainly just test cycles in the future. You have a very good point and that was my thinking as well. Test is best so why use less of a good thing to substitute it with a weaker drug, just dosen't make sense. I know that even a gram isn't much to some of you guys but it is doing wonders for me so I'll stick to my guns!

  8. #8
    Anhydro78's Avatar
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    I allways have used Deca and Equipoise with my Test in all my cycles. I wouldnt have it any other way. But I do agree that Testosterone gets most of the credit for my growth in my cycles. I use Deca or Equipoise in all my cycles so I can try to grow connective tissue while also adding lean muscle. I also like the Idea of using Deca or Equipoise so that way I dont have to take as much Testosterone. I feel those two compounds have less side effects while still adding or helping with more growth.

    But I agree Testosterone is KING in my book.

  9. #9
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    dive_kid is offline Anabolic Member
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    great post guys.all good info

  10. #10
    SKiN is offline Member
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    I agree, it seems ridiculous sometimes when someones cycle is about a paragraph long...

    My first cycle was 400mg test/wk. I grew far more than my current cycle... 500mg test/400mg eq.. I still would have kept the eq in there for the vasularity and its promotion of collegen synthesis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anhydro78
    I use Deca or Equipoise in all my cycles so I can try to grow connective tissue while also adding lean muscle.
    Me too....

  11. #11
    MMC78's Avatar
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    There are secondary benefits to using compounds other than testosterone . For example the collagen building and strengthening abilities of deca , eq and anavar .

  12. #12
    Executioner's Avatar
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    Sure, Test is the king, but I disagree with running only test in the offseason, that means you are excluding such VALUABLE compounds like

    -Anadrol
    -Test Suspension

    To me, these were absolutely crutch in my recent offseason. I will swear by running these compounds with plenty of enanthate , my benchpress went up 100 lbs. in 8 weeks. Because of that I suffered a minor pectoral injury, forcing me to suspend chest training temporarily. Be careful about getting too strong too fast.

    Anyway, I skip the bull****. EQ,Deca , ect. are unnecessary at this point for me...I stick with the serious names for the serious gains... for pre-competition the addition of Winstrol , Tren , Proviron ect. are necessary. Other than that, I personally use the powerful ones.

    And no less than 1g enan... period.

  13. #13
    sp9's Avatar
    sp9
    sp9 is offline MMA Competition Sentinel
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    I like test only but I enjoyed adding eq to it the last time. Main reason is it made the injections painless when mixed. Second reason is the vascularity. Third reason, I hope that it will be long lasting gains. (did a 16 week test/eq cycle (600/400))

  14. #14
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    I have to add that a test only cycle is the only cycle that will work well with finasteride or dutasteride. Everything else does not convert to dht and would render finasteride/ dutasteride useless. And I know this question will come up again and again.

  15. #15
    AustrianOAK14's Avatar
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    test only cycles are good if sheer mass is your goal. it makes sense as well, when stated above that bodybuilders in the offseason will only use test! in the offseason they are looking to gain good weight as most of us know TESTOSTERONE is still king of the road when it comes to MASS(3 months before comp they can cut up with other drugs). In my first cycle i used 500mg of deca for 6 weeks then added 750mg of sustanon for another 8 weeks and blew up pretty **** good( i should have taken the two together, but i was 20 didnt know too much) IMO test only cycles are great if your diet is on point, if your getting proper rest, and if you are seroious and commited to reshaping your body. when im on steroids im DEAD serious bc i spend all that money on the juice, groceries, gym fees, etc.

  16. #16
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    Duke of Earl is offline Senior Member
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    I'm running Test E & Var at the moment- will the Var take care of any collagen / tendon issues, or should I add a low dose of EQ?

  17. #17
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    I have a question then, I ran test at a typical dose ~525mg/week for my first cycle. How do you think lowering the dose to say 300/week would fare? I know we talked about it in PM before but I dont remember if we talked about starting with low dose or adjusting to low dose after the fact, know what i mean?

  18. #18
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by symatech
    I have a question then, I ran test at a typical dose ~525mg/week for my first cycle. How do you think lowering the dose to say 300/week would fare? I know we talked about it in PM before but I dont remember if we talked about starting with low dose or adjusting to low dose after the fact, know what i mean?
    Symatech,

    I'm a fan of low dose cycles. There's absolutely no reason for someone to start at more than 400mg of test per week (moderate dose). I prefer to see people start at 250-350mg per week.

    As long as you're using the time on = time off rule and/or taking blood tests to ensure that your body has recovered properly after a cycle, then your body will not develop a tolerance to steroids even after 4 cycles. So, yes, you can drop back down to a low dose cycle and still get results.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 09-13-2004 at 12:57 PM.

  19. #19
    symatech's Avatar
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    Thats good to know, its comming up on a year since my cycle so I think ill be ok. im a patient guy. I didnt really start taking low dose cycles to heart until after my cycle. mistake on my part but I will definately go lower with the dose next time I do run a cycle.

  20. #20
    builtthekid's Avatar
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    NOt to mention tren is some fire compared to just test alone.

  21. #21
    mass junkie's Avatar
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    I incorporate Deca to help lube the joints

    sounds good otherwise though

  22. #22
    juicelee is offline Associate Member
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    I agree totally...In fact I have been telling my bros that for quite sometime...I mean it makes sense why run something less powerful along with the test, when u coud just up your dose of test. My opinion test,gh and slin and you are good to go

    P.S. although I am curious what EQ will do for me I have heard many good things and I cannot wait to try it

  23. #23
    AustrianOAK14's Avatar
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    test is the way to go

  24. #24
    DARKSEID's Avatar
    DARKSEID is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    Disclaimer:
    The comments that follow are not for beggining steroid users. These are for users that have slowly worked up to moderate or high doses or are already experimenting with moderate to high doses. I still believe users should use low doses AT LEAST for their first 3 or 4 cycles.

    Testosterone is the king of steroids . All other steroids are just imitations of it with manipulations to make a steroid more androgenic or anabolic . As we all know, steroids are called Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids (AAS), since no one has been able to fully eliminate the androgenic or anabolic component of a steroid. So...Why not (1) use just testosterone at mid to high doses and cut out stacking all the other wanna-be testosterones like Deca, EQ and Anavar and (2) just use diet and harding agents after bulking cycles to get the hardened look you may want?

    If you're stacking weekly doses of 400mg of testosterone cypionate with 300mg of deca , why not just use 700mg of testosterone and skip the deca dick?

    I've chatted with about 5 competitive bodybuilders over the last 6 months and it seems that most of them are running high dose test-only cycles during the off-season (bulking cycles). The others are running moderate to high dose stacks for bulking. (AGAIN--I'm talking about seasoned competitors, not fathers and sons who have full time jobs, school and a big social life who fit lifting in on the side and have not made a serious dedication to nutrition, rest and workout intensity. These bodybuilders I'm talking about have dedicated their lives to lifting and growing).

    I know that some drugs harden people up and others help you carry less weight, but if you're out to bulk, wouldn't using just testosterone and a few ancillary drugs (anti-e's to manage lipids and water weight) be the best route?

    I know some people will mention that EQ and other steroids seem to give more "keepable gains." To that I say this: If you slap on good mass on a test-only cycle, eat well and lift well between cycles, why wouldn't you be able to keep much of your gains? I think the people who loose a lot of weight between cycles, are probably loosing water weight and then becoming unmotivated between the rush (or "high") of being on a steroid cycle.

    Comments?


    I agree with this idea. I have used the past 2 cycles running only drol and test, and have significantly cut bodyfat while increasing strength. I've used all the other compounds and don't get the results from them, that most others get especially tren , which is the only compount that I would even consider throwing in again. As I'm curious to see if it was just a bad batch or that I just don't respond to tren.

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