Is this enough!!!

**bigrthanu** · 09-15-2004, 03:18 PM

Hey guys , i'm a newbie to AS, not to bodybuilding, I'm 26 5' 11" 220- 225 lbs pretty lean, and never thought i would ever do this but i am sick and tired of eating 6-7 meals a day 2g of protien per pound of body weight, training heavy 5 days a week for 10 years ( the last five have given limited results) sleeping 8 hours evry night being very strict, I never drink and i am stagnent. I ve tryed all the VPx crap and the trib, andro, prohormones out the a$$ with no real gains. Why five years ago the thought of using roids was not even considered. I could gain just lookin at weights. When i was 20 i benched 4 plates a side for the first time) after over five years i havent gained more than 10 lbs on bench, squats have stayed basically the same gained a few more reps with 5 thats it. so im gonna take the plunge, I meen everyone already accusses me of using so i might as well start, actually i already have, my first shot started last week. So what i was wondering is 50 mg a day of nordic prop with 70 mg /day tren acet enough to take for my first cycle or should i throw more test in. I just wanna grow again!!! anything!!! id love 5-10 lbs muscle in 10- 12 weeks. Before someone tells me to take alot more gear remember I would rather grow very slowly over time my muscles have a 'mature" look to them from all the beatings they have recieved , i dont want any bloated look just hard and defined and id liike to increase my bench to five plates over the next year any advice from hardcore lifters would be greatly appreciated. thanx

**MIKE_XXL** · 09-15-2004, 03:29 PM

I think you are good to go Bro that is a total dose of 120mg per day meaning it's 840mg per week, that's more then enough to grow on your first cycle, i would preffer maybe 75mg of prop and 50mg of Tren per day, but you will be fine with your dosing as well...good luck..XXL

**1badcamaro** · 09-15-2004, 03:38 PM

yea, i think you may have it backwards, you need around 70 grams of the prop and 50 of tren per day. You always run more test than tren to keep from shutting down. You may not even need tren since this is your first cycle and tren can be very harsh. I'd suggest looking into test only.

**bigrthanu** · 09-15-2004, 03:43 PM

cool guys thanx for the info, call me crazy but as of right now i havent evn shot the tren because i was scared of shuting myself down, so you think i could just run straight test and not worry about the tren. or should i just use tren really mild would even less than 50 mg every day be benificial or am i just waisting the tren

**MIKE_XXL** · 09-15-2004, 03:46 PM

I have used tren at 37.5mg per day and got great results with it, so i think even that is sufficent, it is 3 times more androgenic then test itself...so that's like 100mg+ of test...but if you do test only 500mg /week should be good...XXL

**bigrthanu** · 09-15-2004, 03:52 PM

thanx bro for the help. One last question well maybe two, i already have clomid for 3 weeks after do you think i should need any antiest for this small dose, i am pretty lean so i definetly dont want gyno, and secondly does tren really shut u down if your takin test cause that would be unexceptable for me since im married and my wife would freak. PS she doesnt know.

**MIKE_XXL** · 09-15-2004, 03:57 PM

I don't know i never had these kind of problems with Tren ...however i alwasy recomend Clomid all the way through the cycle, i feel my "boys" dont shrink nearly as much as they do without it...and the after cycle crush is much less pronounced if Clomid is taken all the way through the cycle...good luck...XXL

**bigrthanu** · 09-15-2004, 04:04 PM

Really? no one every told me that. So should i just take a small dose everyday and at the end throw more clomid in or just keep taking the same amount and backing it of for the last three weeks? I just wanna say this forum is very helpful. for a guy like me who was totaly against AS and now im very exited about it due to reading this forum for the last few weeks. Oh P.S. what about the anti E do u think i need any?

**MIKE_XXL** · 09-15-2004, 04:09 PM

Clomid acts like an Anti-E, so you get two fold effect by taking it the whole cycle...i would take 50mg of clomid all the way through and then continue it on for 4 weeks after if short esters are used or 6 weeks after if long esters are used...XXL

**bigrthanu** · 09-15-2004, 04:17 PM

Nice Well im off to the gym talk to ya lator bro thanx for the help

**shadowman25** · 09-15-2004, 04:21 PM

10 mgs of nolvadex (tamoxifen ) should be taken every day. It kept my gains lean and seems to make me feel better ( i take 20mg per day ) You wont have to worry about gyno with nolv.

**Duke of Earl** · 09-15-2004, 04:40 PM

hey Mike XXL are there any downsides to taking Clomid throughout?
I've got a ****load of Trib- would this do instead?

**Duke of Earl** · 09-15-2004, 04:42 PM

Hey Mike XXL are there any downsides to taking clomid throughout your cycle?
I've got a ****load of trib- will this do the same job?

**MIKE_XXL** · 09-15-2004, 05:32 PM

I have taken Clomid for over a year at the time and did not feel any adverse sides...i have a Kilo fo Trib and tak it before bed everynight...i am sure it won't hurt...i do not think it's as effective as Clomid...XXL

**bigrthanu** · 09-16-2004, 09:05 AM

Hey ive got another question if anyone can help do you think it would be benificial for me to load up on test for another week and then add the tren in for 6 weeks or so ive been on test pro 50mg / day for almost two weeks. so the tren would take me to week 8 and then back it off and run the test till week ten?

**SaTyR** · 09-16-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by bigrthanu

Hey guys , i'm a newbie to AS, not to bodybuilding, I'm 26 5' 11" 220- 225 lbs pretty lean, and never thought i would ever do this but i am sick and tired of eating 6-7 meals a day 2g of protien per pound of body weight, training heavy 5 days a week for 10 years ( the last five have given limited results) sleeping 8 hours evry night being very strict, I never drink and i am stagnent. I ve tryed all the VPx crap and the trib, andro, prohormones out the a$$ with no real gains. Why five years ago the thought of using roids was not even considered. I could gain just lookin at weights. When i was 20 i benched 4 plates a side for the first time) after over five years i havent gained more than 10 lbs on bench, squats have stayed basically the same gained a few more reps with 5 thats it. so im gonna take the plunge, I meen everyone already accusses me of using so i might as well start, actually i already have, my first shot started last week. So what i was wondering is 50 mg a day of nordic prop with 70 mg /day tren acet enough to take for my first cycle or should i throw more test in. I just wanna grow again!!! anything!!! id love 5-10 lbs muscle in 10- 12 weeks. Before someone tells me to take alot more gear remember I would rather grow very slowly over time my muscles have a 'mature" look to them from all the beatings they have recieved , i dont want any bloated look just hard and defined and id liike to increase my bench to five plates over the next year any advice from hardcore lifters would be greatly appreciated. thanx

Can you show us some pictures ?

**SaTyR** · 09-16-2004, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by MIKE_XXL

I don't know i never had these kind of problems with Tren...however i alwasy recomend Clomid all the way through the cycle, i feel my "boys" dont shrink nearly as much as they do without it...and the after cycle crush is much less pronounced if Clomid is taken all the way through the cycle...good luck...XXL

Mike after you take clomid during you whole cycle. Do you still do a 300/100/50mg PCT with clomid ???

**bigrthanu** · 09-16-2004, 07:01 PM

ya ill post sum pics im kinda computer illiterate, just started talking on this forum call me old fasioned but dont really ever use the computer this is really the first time ive ever been on a forum ill grab a digital cam and post sum up maybe a early cycle photo and an after cycle one as well

**bigrthanu** · 09-16-2004, 07:07 PM

about my other question would someone recomend i load up on test prop first and then use tren for 6 weeks or just go test all the way for my first time , btw this test pro from nordic in England is beautiful ive been readin about everyone experiencing pain from prop but this stuff is smooth like butter maybe ill buy sum vet grade stuff and see just how painful it is cause i only have a very mild sorness about 12 hours after but i like the pain its kinda like after you beat your shoulder on delt day and there sore after, love it!

**joevette** · 09-16-2004, 07:11 PM

I'm not a big fan of clomid for long periods of time due to occulotoxicity issues. I use a combo of 4-6g of trib and 1g of Tongkat Ali ed. That always keeps the boys nice and full. The Tongkat is also supposed to lower SHBG levels, I don't know to what degree though. For longer cycles I use HCG and of course that works the best.

**bigrthanu** · 09-16-2004, 07:16 PM

do you think anti E's are needed with these small doses ive been shooting for almost 2 weeks and ive got no bloat at all the only thing im feeling is aggression (for liftin) and some sleeplessness

**joevette** · 09-16-2004, 07:29 PM

I always use anti-e's, but thats just me. I use a SERM becuase I'm worried about gyno and I use an AI to lessen bloat. The AI also keeps you from having an estrogen rebound during and after PCT. This can cause gyno even after PCT, and it has for many people. Not worth the risk for me. Less estrogen also makes PCT easier.

**bigrthanu** · 09-16-2004, 07:34 PM

so you dont think clomid for the whole cycle at 50 mg / day is that good i dont see alot of people recomending that but mike XXL did and he seems to have a fair amount of experience. not being a dick just wanting other peoples experiences