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  1. #1
    tydavis6406 is offline New Member
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    Liquidex and Gains

    I'm running 300mg of test cypionate per week, with liquidex. I was wondering if liquidex blocks gains? I read somewhere it either blocks some gains or slows it down. Can anyone confirm this ??

  2. #2
    Froggy's Avatar
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    IMO; if you have your dosage correct...not using to much...it will not hinder your gains a noticeable amount. IMO it (AI) is a necessary ancilliary when using test...I would never use it without, but maybe that's just me. Good Luck Bro...

  3. #3
    kronik is offline Senior Member
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    Well let me ask you this, Is a couple of pounds of water weight worth gyno?

  4. #4
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tydavis6406
    I'm running 300mg of test cypionate per week, with liquidex. I was wondering if liquidex blocks gains? I read somewhere it either blocks some gains or slows it down. Can anyone confirm this ??
    I think you are running too little gear to need an AI. If you were over 700 mg a week then maybe, but I dont think you have enough estrogen to warrant even using any anti-e's at all, you are only doing just slightly above natural high range for healthy 21 year olds.

  5. #5
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Liquidex will not hinder gains...... There have been studies that show that nolvadex will slightly decrease IGF-1 levels but still not enough to effect your gains.

  6. #6
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntpadude
    I think you are running too little gear to need an AI. If you were over 700 mg a week then maybe, but I dont think you have enough estrogen to warrant even using any anti-e's at all, you are only doing just slightly above natural high range for healthy 21 year olds.
    You can't determine how much of the test will be converted to estrogen. For his safety he should be using anti-e's no matter what dosages he's running.

  7. #7
    kronik is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan
    You can't determine how much of the test will be converted to estrogen. For his safety he should be using anti-e's no matter what dosages he's running.
    Agreed. Better safe than sorry...

  8. #8
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan
    You can't determine how much of the test will be converted to estrogen. For his safety he should be using anti-e's no matter what dosages he's running.
    Well I am just saying, this is the wrong Anti-E... it is much worst to have NO estrogen in your system then to have too much... there are health consequences to both... Too much estro = gyno, not enough = bone damage and heart/cardio/vacular system damage.

    For such a low dose cycle, better to use things like nolva or clomid for anti-e. L-Dex is just too strong for such a low dose cycle.

    Myself, I verified doing 700 mg of test a week, my estrogens with no anti-e's or AI's at all was verified by blood test as still being below levels necessary to cause gyno and no detectable progesterone. However my blood pressure was low, HDL/LDL's were good, and this was because I was monitoring and allowing increases in my estrogen. My early cycles using L-dex had my Cholesterol 100 points higher then when I was on a 8 month no l-dex cycle using double the gear and my triglicerides were down 200 points and blood pressure was lower. L-dex definately had me screwed up and headed for trouble, but doing no anti-e except for nolva and clomid to respond to periodic simptoms as they occur had really brought around and straightened out my lipids and blood pressure.

  9. #9
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    Hawkman44 is offline Associate Member
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    So ntpadue,

    Are you suggesting that anyone taking less than 700mg of Test per week not take any anti's at all unless you get signs of gyno?

  10. #10
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman44
    So ntpadude,

    Are you suggesting that anyone taking less than 700mg of Test per week not take any anti's at all unless you get signs of gyno?
    No I am suggesting under 600 mg, I would not consider AI's... I would stick to good old Nolva and/or clomid. Especially for a 300 mg a week, L-dex is just going to wipe out his estrogen levels and take them down to zero.

  11. #11
    tydavis6406 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronik
    Well let me ask you this, Is a couple of pounds of water weight worth gyno?
    will liquidex also prevent gyno? i guess so eh since it blocks estrogen, although its my first week and i'm feeling something, i know it takes 4 weeks to kick in, but i am feeling something i dont usually feel, like in the gym i feel better, i am eating way more, and i weigh like 5 lbs more, next injection is on wed.

  12. #12
    kronik is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tydavis6406
    will liquidex also prevent gyno? i guess so eh since it blocks estrogen, although its my first week and i'm feeling something, i know it takes 4 weeks to kick in, but i am feeling something i dont usually feel, like in the gym i feel better, i am eating way more, and i weigh like 5 lbs more, next injection is on wed.
    nolva blocks, armidex inhibits conversion...The gains are in your head at this time it is to early.

  13. #13
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronik
    nolva blocks, armidex inhibits conversion...The gains are in your head at this time it is to early.
    Nolva blocks but still allows estrogen levels to increase... keeps the estrogen from causing gyno but you still get the good benefits of better lipid profile and lower blood pressure.

    Arimidex /L-dex inhibits conversion, quite often L-dex prevents ALL estrogen conversion to the point you end up with no estrogen in the body at all and this causes the bad lipid problems and high blood pressure.

  14. #14
    tydavis6406 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntpadude
    Nolva blocks but still allows estrogen levels to increase... keeps the estrogen from causing gyno but you still get the good benefits of better lipid profile and lower blood pressure.

    Arimidex/L-dex inhibits conversion, quite often L-dex prevents ALL estrogen conversion to the point you end up with no estrogen in the body at all and this causes the bad lipid problems and high blood pressure.
    what about lower doses of l-dex such as .25 or .10 mg

  15. #15
    S R H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tydavis6406
    what about lower doses of l-dex such as .25 or .10 mg
    Yeah... what about lower doses like that ED? is that gonna hurt u too if ur only running lets say 400 mg/week?

  16. #16
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntpadude
    Well I am just saying, this is the wrong Anti-E... it is much worst to have NO estrogen in your system then to have too much... there are health consequences to both... Too much estro = gyno, not enough = bone damage and heart/cardio/vacular system damage.

    For such a low dose cycle, better to use things like nolva or clomid for anti-e. L-Dex is just too strong for such a low dose cycle.

    Myself, I verified doing 700 mg of test a week, my estrogens with no anti-e's or AI's at all was verified by blood test as still being below levels necessary to cause gyno and no detectable progesterone. However my blood pressure was low, HDL/LDL's were good, and this was because I was monitoring and allowing increases in my estrogen. My early cycles using L-dex had my Cholesterol 100 points higher then when I was on a 8 month no l-dex cycle using double the gear and my triglicerides were down 200 points and blood pressure was lower. L-dex definately had me screwed up and headed for trouble, but doing no anti-e except for nolva and clomid to respond to periodic simptoms as they occur had really brought around and straightened out my lipids and blood pressure.
    Bro, there will always be estrogen in his system...... plus the AI will not inhibit all of the conversion. L-dex at a .25mg ED would not be able to block all the the conversion.

    Also, these test you took where on you not another person.

  17. #17
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tydavis6406
    what about lower doses of l-dex such as .25 or .10 mg
    Best would be to run .25mg of L-dex and 10mg Nolva throughout your cycle. If I had to choose I would use nolva over l-dex because of the ability to bind to receptor sites and help keep gyno from apearing.

  18. #18
    Guardian74's Avatar
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    So, what if a guy is running 750 mg test wk, 400mg Deca wk, and 40 mg Dbol daily? 1mg ldex eod? Run nolv with ldex? What about pct? Run ldex and nolv and clomid?

  19. #19
    Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian74
    So, Run nolv with ldex? What about pct? Run ldex and nolv and clomid?
    IMO: Add some b-6 also...There are many different, but valid points in this thread...It goes to show the individual aspect of genetic reactions to AAS...until you know what your "majic#" is...better safe than sorry!!!

  20. #20
    Guardian74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy
    IMO: Add some b-6 also...There are many different, but valid points in this thread...It goes to show the individual aspect of genetic reactions to AAS...until you know what your "majic#" is...better safe than sorry!!!
    I've never run ldex before and was curious if I can sub it for nolv throughout. I've seen it work on people w/mild gyno type symptoms and was really impressed with it's effectiveness.

  21. #21
    Froggy's Avatar
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    IMO; The lipid profile thing is a valid concern when running an AI...so the nolva will compliment this well by having a positive effect on lipids.

  22. #22
    Guardian74's Avatar
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    Thanks alot. Peace Frog.

  23. #23
    fitnessNY's Avatar
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    You will not hinder gains, especially with .25 mg of l-dex. IMO bump up the test if you can, 300 is low.

  24. #24
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    Nptadude, did you use nolva with the l-dex during your earlier cycles? One of the major reasons for taking nolva with an AI is to prevent the problems associated with low estrogen. Nolva mimics estogen in bone tissue as well as breast tissue.

    I don't remember who it was, but one of the mods here said that while taking nolva with l-dex his cholesterol levels were unchanged. Another (maybe billybathgate) did several tests using femera and his estrogen was still above normal.

    Also, his test dose is not "slightly higher than the normal 21 year old". It's about 4 times as much, and gyno has been caused from HCG which won't raise test levels to 300mg/week.

  25. #25
    bigrthanu is offline Associate Member
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    So, what if a guy is running 750 mg test wk, 400mg Deca wk, and 40 mg Dbol daily? 1mg ldex eod? Run nolv with ldex? What about pct? Run ldex and nolv and clomid?
    BUMP_

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