09-24-2004, 07:40 PM #1
Here it is the REVISED Steroid Profile of Deca Durabolin!! Please Comment
Deca , the decanoate ester of nandrolone , was from the brand name Deca Durabolin from the Organon Company.
Nandrolone is the most popular and most used steroid among athletes today. Why is it so popular you ask? Well this profile will help clarify that. Nandrolone, also known as 19 Nor-testosterone , looks like testosterone except it is missing a carbon atom in the 19th position which gives it some distinct characteristics. First, it makes nandrolone a notable weaker agonist of the androgen receptor which causes a reduction in the risk of androgenic side effects. Nandrolone is the only steroid that is affected by 5-alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to the more-potent DHT, actually converts nandrolone to a less-potent compound, DHN. This means that this steroid is deactivated in the skin, scalp, and prostate which effectively lowers androgen levels compared to the rest of the body. Since Deca gives less activity in these areas, Deca would be the best choice for those with concerns of prostate hypertrophy, acne, or hair loss because the prostate and scalp have high concentrations of the 5AR enzyme. One reason maybe because, Deca is 2.4 times as anabolic as testosterone 1 on a gram for gram basis. Since nandrolone is weakened at the 5AR enzyme and testosterone becomes notably stronger at the 5AR enzyme it makes sense that testosterone would be a better anabolic mediator in tissues with a high concentration of this enzyme, and that nandrolone would be the stronger of the two in tissues with a lower count of 5AR enzyme. Since deca has a structural closeness to testosterone, it is a potent muscle builder and performance enhancer with a safe side, at least androgenically speaking. This may be the reason to its great popularity. But due to the lack of instantaneous anabolic activity, nandrolone is always used in combination with a more androgenic steroid to increase the results without increasing androgenic side effects to a serious degree. It should also be noted that in HIV studies, Deca has been shown not only to be effective at safely bringing up the lean body weight of patient, but also to be beneficial to the immune system
Deca influences anabolic effects two-fold. First, it is a good link for nitrogen retention. If nitrogen retention is high, then the cells are taking up more nitrogen than they are releasing. Why is this good you ask? Every amino acid has an amino-group, which contains nitrogen. When cell retain nitrogen the amino acid concentration is high which positively affects the rate of protein synthesis. Every tissue in our body is made from protein, especially muscle, which means that muscle hypertrophy is made possible. The second factor is estrogen. Although nandrolone’ rate of aromatization is significantly smaller than testosterone, it does convert to a certain powerful type of estrogen, which has shown to increase glycogen storage, growth hormone release and promote the androgen receptor in some tissues.
But most would ask how nandrolone is so anabolic if the overall yield is quite smaller and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation? Well, a common belief is a third receptor: the progesterone receptor, which decreases estrogen receptor concentration and in contrast is mediate estrogenic activity in other tissues. Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is a form of birth control because of its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia. The birth control pills that are given to women mainly contain pregestins which are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19-nor-progesterone derivatives. Adding Deca in a cycle will compete with progesterone which will result in a severe decrease in sexual arousal. The second problem with the use of drugs containing progestins is the formation of new breast tissue and growth because breast tissue contains progesterone receptors and estrogen receptors. If either of these are over stimulated the result is gyno. However, this varies from person to person depending on the numbers and ratios of progesterone receptors and estrogen receptors. Using anti-estrogens such as nolvadex or arimidex will help by reducing the stimulation in the breast tissue but if the concentrations of PR or ER are high then development of gyno will occur. Although side effects are uncommon with the use of nandrolone, they can happen and the repercussions of the progesterone activity show that an aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex, is not the solution. Additionally, just as progesterone will to a point increase sex drive in women, and then often decrease it as levels get too high, high levels of progestogenic steroids can kill sex drive in male bodybuilders, though there is a great deal of individual inconsistency as to what is too much. Progestogenic activity also slows down LH production, and contrary to common belief, even small amounts of Deca are quite inhibitory, approximately as much so as the same amount of testosterone. Progestogenic activity also increases Intramuscular fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid (GC) stimulation, which will be discussed in the latter part of this profile.
1. DECA dick is real
2. DECA does cause Gyno
3. DECA is progestin it must be fought with anti-progestins
4. Use of Nolvadex and Arimidex will help, but only by reducing ER stimulation.
Even though these problems are not so common, they can happen and treatment is not easy.
For those of you looking to use nandrolone as your only steroid, be aware that the gains on nandrolone are not only mild, but also quite hard to maintain even with a dosage of 200-800mg/wk. Nandrolone stifles the natural testosterone production because of the estrogenic/progestagenic properties. Because it takes part in three receptors, it is quick and harsh in giving negative feedback to release gonadotropin releasing hormone from the hypothalamus. But one has to consider that it stays in the body a lot longer because of the likeness for esterases. This means that even after ending use of the drug, natural levels will still be suppressed; there simply isn’t enough intrinsic anabolism available to support the mass gained which produces a quick and shameful reduction of weight.
But do not worry there are benefits to the use of Deca. One benefit is pain-free workouts from the water (synovial fluid) stored in the joints, which is used as lubrication. The water in the joints eases the impact of heavy weight used by body builders and weightlifters. Deca, Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time noticeably increase collagen synthesis and bone mass and density, leaving you with a significantly reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sustanon , cypionate , or enanthate . While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen synthesis. Deca at a dose of about 270 mg/wk will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen synthesis. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen synthesis, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood. Another benefit was shown by a 12-month, randomized, prospective, controlled
study, which was performed in an outpatient clinic. This study showed that a low dose of 50 mg/wk rapidly increases the bone mass of men with idiopathic osteoporosis in this preliminary study.
But you may wonder how can nandrolone do a better job than a stronger steroid such as testosterone? Well a study showed that nandrolone metabolites are also aldosterone agonists. Although the study claims to not know how the mechanism works, it was shown that aldosterone has a strong function in the retention of sodium in the body. As you would guess, a high sodium level means high storage of water which would explain this effect. A downfall to this is that there is a loss of definition and a bulkier frame is expected. Side effects from caused from nandrolone being androgenic can occur even at low dosages of 400 mg/wk. Most include high blood pressure, and a prolonged time of blood clotting which results in nose bleeds, and extended bleeding of cuts, in addition to an increased production of sebaceous gland and occasional acne. Some athletes also claim headaches and sexual over stimulation. If nandrolone is taken for long periods of time, the testes will produce less testosterone because Deca inhibits the release of gonadotropins from the hypophysis.
Women with a dosage of up to 100 mg/week usually experience no major problems with Deca. On the other hand, if higher doses are used, androgenic-caused virilization can occur, such as deep voice (irreversible), increased body hair, increased libido, and perhaps clitorihypertrophy. Women who experience side-effects at doses as low as 50mg/wk would be better off using Durabolin, since no concentrations of undesired amounts of androgens occur. At a does of 50mg/wk combined with 10 mg/day of oxandrolone are only slight androgenic so that side effects rarely occur. Deca, leads to a net muscle gain from the increased protein synthesis and oxandrolone leads to measurable strength gains with little water retention from the increased phosphocreatine synthesis. Another combination is Deca and winstrol tabs and deca and primobolan S-tabs. A study using women who had osteoporosis indicated that nandrolone decanoate exerts positive effects on vertebral Bone Mineral Density and on bone pain in patients with established postmenopausal osteoporosis.
Those who are prone to the effects and side-effect should take extra precaution while using this drug. Using an estrogen blocker such as arimidex or nolvadex would be a better choice compared to just blocking aromatase. An estrogen blocker will cancel out a big part of the progestagenic action since there will be no estrogen floating around, or if it is kept from activating the ER. If nandrolone is stacked with another steroid, the use of an aromatase inhibitor would be a good choice in higher dose situations. Winnie (stanozolol ) may provide some type of aid because it binds to the PR as well but remains unaltered by it.
Nandrolone stacks well with everything. Nandrolone is mostly used as a mass building compound by all. Since there is quite a bit of water retention, it does not give good results in a cutting stack. The usual dose of 400 mg/wk is a common dose for a somewhat experienced user when used with another steroid. Nandrolone as decanoate, such as Deca Durabolin is a long acting ester of ten carbons which means that one injection weekly will suffice since it has such a long span of activity. Because of this it is usually stacked with another aromatizing compound such as a long acting testosterone like cypionate, enanthate, or sustanon 250. For a beginner, the testosterone compound is the most active, so it is better to lower the dose of nandrolone instead of the dose of testosterone. One such example is most beginners wanting to use 400mg of nandrolone and 250 mg of testosterone. A better suggestion would be to do 500 mg of testosterone and 200 mg of nandrolone. An oral steroid is also used in the beginning of the cycle to boost gains and strength such as Anadrol or Dianabol , but neither can be run as long as the nandrolone due to liver toxicity. A usual dose of Dianabol is 15-40 mg/day and 200-400mg Deca/wk with 500 mg of testosterone. A deca stack including Winnie as mentioned above is good for those prone to gyno.
Using nandrolone with a low dose (200 mg/wk) in a cutting cycle also proves that nandrolone can really stack with anything. One good one is running Deca along with Equipose as 62% of Anabolicreview.com members stated in a poll. One Anabolic review member claimed “The deca helped make great strength gains/joint comfort, and the equipose made me eat like a horse and brought out my vascularity. Another AR member claims “I have run a Eq and Deca stack together, all I can say unreal, I loved it. Gains where awesome, but the feeling you get from week 6 and on, you feel superhuman 24/7, I have felt pumps before but nothing like on a Eq/Deca stack, heres what I did....
weeks 1-12 EQ 300mg/wk
weeks 1-12 Deca 300mg/wk
weeks 1-15 Test Enthanate 600mg/wk
weeks 12-18 Anavar 30mg/day
This is a must try, I will be doing something similar (EQ+Deca) many more times!
The use of Arimidex (.25 mg/day), or nolvadex (10 mg/day) may be the prescription to binding to estrogen receptors since estrogen loses most of its influence.
HCG injections can used for added comfort, to quickly bring back the normal ability of the testes to respond to the release of gonadotropins. The normal dosing of HCg is three injections of 2500-5000 i.u’s spaced five days apart. Post cycle therapy beings three weeks after the end of the cycle because Deca stays in the system for a while. If not the ancillaries will not work to their full effect since the steroid is still being released into the blood stream. Post-cycle use of Clomid and Nolvadex, used to help HPTA recover faster and retain gains, also comes highly recommended, and should be run longer than you would with most stacks, since nandrolone stays active for a very long time.
A drug test showed that the hormone nandrolone and many of its metabolites came up 18 months after the last use of the drug. This means that this drug and any if its metabolites such as nor-prohormones, should be avoided by those who are subject to testing. One last note that is of critical relevance to drug tested athletes is the interaction between nandrolone and esterase. Injectable, non 17-alpha-alkylated hormones are often esterified. This means attaching an ester to a specific position on the steroid causing it to be more lipophyllic. That means it stores well in body-fat and is only slowly released into the bloodstream, giving the whole a time-released character. The more carbons an ester has the longer it will last. For the drug to become active it needs to remove its ester. When released into the bloodstream simply the suspension in H2O will solve that. But in the body-fat the ester can also be removed by the enzyme esterase. But esterase works two ways, meaning in some cases it can also attach an ester. Nandrolone is such a case.
The availability of Deca is dropping, but its still the most counterfeited steroid in the world. That makes it more likely that an inexperienced buyer will get scammed looking for nandrolone decanoate, than looking for boldenone undecylenate.
Brands & Products:
Organon Deca-Durabolin (GB, GR, Fl, Canada, U.S.) 100 mg/ml
Deca-Durabolin (G, B, CH, DK, ES, FR, GB,U.S, GR, ML, PL,FI; Mexico, Thailand,YU, U.S., A, South Africa) 50 mg/ml
Deca-Durabol (S) 25, 50 and 100 mg/ml
Deca-Durabolin '100' (NL) 100 mg/ml
Adelco Anaboline (GR) 50 mg/ml
Keene Androlone-D 200 (o.c.) (US) 200 mg/ml
Bender Deca-Durabolin (A) 25 mg/ml
Donmed Deca-Durabolin (S-Africa) 25 mg/ml
Hermes/Organon Deca-Durabolin (YU) 25 mg/ml
Steris Deca-Durabolin (US) 200 mg/ml
Nandrolone Dec. (US) 50, 100 and 200 mg/ml
Chemica Elpihormo (GR) 50 mg/ml
Genapharm Extraboline (GR) 50 mg/ml
Jenapharm Turinabol Depot (o.c.) (G) 50 mg/ml
Turinabol Depot (BG, CZ) 50 mg/ml
Hyrex Hybolin Decanoate (US) 50 mg/ml and 100 mg/ml
Etem Jebolan (TK) 50 mg/ml
Lyphomed/Quad Nandrol. Dec. (o.c.) (US) 100 mg/ml
Forest Nandrobolic LA (o.c.) (US) 100 mg/ml
Hauck Neo-Durabolic (o.c.) (US) 100 and 200 mg/ml
Rafarm Nurezan (GR) 50 mg/ml
Gedeon Richter Retabolil (U, HU, BG) 25 and 50 mg/ml
Medexport Retabolin (Russia) 50 mg/ml
Orion Sterobolin (o.c.) (FL) 50 mg/ml
Demo Ziremilon (GR) 50 mg/ml
Bela-Pharm Veterinary: Anabolicum (G) 25 mg/ml; 10 ml/50 ml
Ttokkyo Labs Nandrolone 300 mg/ml
Brovel Norandren 50 (Mexico) 50 mg/ml; 10 ml/50 mI
09-24-2004, 09:00 PM #2Owner
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
09-24-2004, 09:04 PM #3
The biggest problem I see
is that you have no source of credibility. It appears as you knew this all of the top of your head with no outside information. Citations and credentials are very critical for a good article
Great areas to find information
Many different school universities that do research in this area
School university libraries
Endocrine journals and sites
Organic chem and BioChem journals and sites
Even reading another article, and restating that article in your own words without citation, IS still plagurism!
A couple points, Eqipoise can be 5AR reduced as well, that is what 1-test is.
Deca does not convert to progesterone or exhibit progesterone characteristics, what happens is that the progesterone receptor binds weakly to the nandralone and through a chemical process modifies it into a psuedo-progesterone if you will, then it will act agonistically in the PR. Further something important to keep in mind, is that the amount of progestrone made, is very low. The key is that progesterone is an estrogenic agonist, meaning it will greatly intensify the effects of estrogen...so using an anti-estrogen for a nandrolone compound is as important as it is for any other drug.
09-24-2004, 09:24 PM #4
so what should I do post the site i go this information from?
09-24-2004, 09:38 PM #5
Also, some of the chemical properties are intesting>
what exactly is PROGESTIN? and an Anti-progestin?
do you possibly mean progesterone?
Look over your grammar and spelling, and deff. add your references.
Also i would organize it a little bit better.
Just some CC, keep up the good work brotha
09-24-2004, 09:38 PM #6
Should I write up a citation of all the places i got the info from? That wasnt given to me in the information/outline. As for www.pubmed.com those articles are mostly based on rats so why would i put it in the profile?
09-24-2004, 09:41 PM #7Originally Posted by moush
www.chemfinder.com if you type it in, you can get the molecular weight, probally the melting point, picture of the structure, and all other chemical names for it
09-24-2004, 09:55 PM #8
hey billy i looked up some endocrinology articles and i had most of the info that was based on those studies although there were only a few of them.
09-24-2004, 10:01 PM #9
Van Marken Lichtenbelt WD, Hartgens F, Vollaard NB, Ebbing S, Kuipers H., Bodybuilders' body composition: effect of nandrolone decanoate, Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Mar;36(3):484-9.
Big Cat article on Bodybuilding.com
http://www.************.com/steroid -articles/steroid.info/16/Deca -Durabolin ®_(nandrolone_decanoate).html
Hamdy RC, Moore SW, Whalen KE, Nandrolone decanoate for men with osteoporosis., Landy C.Am J Ther. 1998 Mar;5(2):89-95.
Passeri M, Pedrazzoni M, Pioli G, Butturini L, Ruys AH, Cortenraad, Effects of nandrolone decanoate on bone mass in established osteoporosis.
MG. Maturitas. 1993 Nov;17(3):211-9.
A short reply to 2thick- on the anabolic board. Deca and You by Macro.
In honor of Ranger-who knows well the potential evils of Deca
09-24-2004, 10:01 PM #10
oh yea anabolicreview.com as well I almost forgot!
09-24-2004, 10:20 PM #11
In the first statement I would word it " produced by the Organon company" instead of "from the Organon company"..
09-25-2004, 02:39 AM #12
09-25-2004, 02:45 AM #13
ya your gettin the point
check out big cats again
see how he cites things, he uses the small number (which thats just one way to do it) and then lists them all in the bottom
its up to ADMIN, youd have to ask him or wait for him to post on the technicalities
your doing a great job though
09-25-2004, 03:14 AM #14Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
This is a good effort. The author obviously put hard work and a lot of time into writing this article. I do however, have very strong feelings about it:
I strongly disagree with putting personal use information of ONE user in the profile. It gives the impression that one person's experience is enough for everyone.
I absolutely do not like the fact that the author threw in a personal stack and called it a "must try." Remember, beginners AND experienced users will be referring to these drug descriptions and will be heavily influenced by what's written in them. It's irresponsibleto write out a stack consisting of over 1.2 grams of gear and to call it a "must try stack" when this information will be used as the starting point for many new users.
The articles should not be subjective. They should be neutral and should not fall too heavily in favor of low-, moderate- or high-doses.
The articles written should purely be informational--strictly about the steroid, not personal (first hand experience) use info.
The articles that we have describing the gear are excellent. I don't understand why we need to re-invent the wheel. Why not just tweak the current profiles rather than completely re-writing them?
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 09-25-2004 at 04:07 AM.
09-25-2004, 07:13 AM #15
hey anhydro I changed the from to produced by
bask8kace I changed the wording around of what you were talking about maybe this is better:
Using nandrolone with a low dose (200 mg/wk) in a cutting cycle also proves that nandrolone can really stack with anything.. One good one is running Deca along with Equipose to gain great strength/joint comfort, increasing appetite, and increasing vascularity, as 62% of Anabolicreview.com members stated in a poll. Anabolicreview.com members claim “a Eq and Deca stack together, is unreal! Gains are awesome, but the feeling you get from week 6 and on, makes you feel superhuman 24/7, I have felt pumps before but nothing like on a Eq/Deca stack. However this is not for a beginner cycle, a Deca, Eq stack is usually used by people who are somewhat more experience.
09-25-2004, 07:15 AM #16
billy - I cant really use those numbers now because the information is all mixed into each other i have no idea how i will find where i put each thing.....
09-25-2004, 07:30 AM #17Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
09-25-2004, 08:01 AM #18Owner
Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
09-25-2004, 08:13 AM #19
well i made the changes that bask8kace.....
I will try my best to use the number system since all the info is mixed togther
Is there anything else i have to do? Or is everything else ok? Once i do the numbering
09-25-2004, 09:24 AM #20
09-25-2004, 11:00 AM #21
how do i know if i am done or not? i dunno what to do now?
09-25-2004, 11:03 AM #22
Great post thats quality man.
09-25-2004, 01:55 PM #23
thanks bro but i still need to know if this is what admin wants or not?
09-25-2004, 03:47 PM #24
The citation part and bask tips seem to be all that is needed. You probally cant use the number cites (footnotes) to post in here, I dont know if vbulletin recognizes it, but like microsoft word for example does.
EX "First, it makes nandrolone a notable weaker agonist of the androgen receptor which causes a reduction in the risk of androgenic side effects. " 1
at the end of the article it would then look like
1) your source of info here
I realise alot of this is somewhat common knowledge picked up on the boards and all, but some of the specific and bolder claims may not be. Its really up to you the author to determine what is what. Obviously, you probally dont need to cite what is originally ARs, because in the end they will become the same author so to speak.
Remeber, at any time someone can look at this and say..do what now, no thats bull****. But when you have a citation there, they can re-refference it and think..well, i didnt know that, interesting I wouldnt have thought that, but clearly there is evidence showing that.
One point, I would not use a www.xxx.com as a reference. So say there is an article or profile you got info from, instead of using the website addy, use the author and the profile (more or less an article) name instead, OR use the sources that the article you looked at used.
Sometimes citatiosn can be a real pain in the ass. Ive had to do it for many years and its redundant, but not jsut is it the right thing to do, both legally and ethically, but it REALLY adds to the credibility of an article.
Imagine you read two articles. One had 5 journals backing it up, the other had none. Myself, I would be more inept to read the one with citation, as I know its based on fact persay, not just an authors opinion.
The last comment, is just with the actual structure. Paragraphs are a readers friend. I realise you have them in there, they just didnt space out well. Id either tabulate or leave an empty space between each...but thats really somethign minor that can be edited in the end.
09-25-2004, 03:51 PM #25
Thanks Billy I def understand what the citations do i will be doin the citations later today or tomorrow sometime and save it on word. I just need to know what to do at this point.
09-25-2004, 04:23 PM #26
Citations are done! Went through the whole article and websites/articles that i used and cited them correctly
09-26-2004, 10:20 AM #27Owner
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
I will take a look on Monday! You have deff. put some time and effort into this!!!! Good job!
Anyone else... your input would be great! The more opinions, the better the profile!
09-26-2004, 02:18 PM #28
09-26-2004, 10:00 PM #29
Here is my OPINION...
On your article I will will give you a solid B+ for rhetoric - you supplied a vast overall knowledge of the drug which at times seemed almost superfulous.
On your article I wiil give you a D- for overall grammar - I found it very hard to follow what the topic of the paragraphs were due to the lack of sticking with simple tools such as topic sentences and bodied paragraphes.
Your article needs continued editing. The amount of commas used caused my head to spin.
A great writer would take my opinions in stride. Thanks for allowing me to comment.
09-27-2004, 07:42 AM #30Owner
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- Mar 2002
09-27-2004, 10:44 AM #31English Rudeboy
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
shadowman25 - D for spelling. (Superfluous)
09-27-2004, 05:04 PM #32
yea I caught that too I get alittle punchy on the keys sometimes...
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