Hey guys
Im gonna do a 10 day stint of DNP at 400mg ED.
What other supps to you guys suggest i use? Also ive been told that it can cause you to hold a fair bit of water. This true?
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Hey guys
Im gonna do a 10 day stint of DNP at 400mg ED.
What other supps to you guys suggest i use? Also ive been told that it can cause you to hold a fair bit of water. This true?
If this is your first dnp run go with 200mg ed. 400 is Awfully large for the first run. It does tend to hold water at first, but 2-3 days after the cycle is over you shed the water retention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maraxus
agreed, you dont know how you are going to react to it..
someone suggested that if im doing 10 days, to start the first 4 days on 200 then step it up for the rest if need be
Quote:
Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
On day 3-4 you should have the highest amount of DNP in your system. I suggest running 200mg throughout.
so u reckon i shouldnt go upto 400? stick with 200mg through out?
200 throughout bro. I think thats the best thing you could do for yourself.
By Kingofmasters on AR.
Many boards have DNP-guides, but in essence they are the same 3 guides over and over again; These guides are not only outdated, they tend to over do the supplements thus making it more complicated than needed and they are life-threatening to newbies because they don't elaborate enough on important aspects as the 36-hour half-life (thus the accumalative effect) and the elektrolyte-loss (they just tell you to drink V8 ).
Not only that but instead of REALLY BASING THEIRSELVES ON SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, they just post some PUBMED researches and long quotes out of them (not summarized or put in lay-mans terms), just to impress the reader!
And often you have the feeling that they really don't know what they are talking about, also they tend to tell more about its history than its practical use and action (BY KNOW WE ALL KNOW IT WAS USED AS AN EXPLOSIVE, INSECTICIDE, YELLOW PAINT etc.)!
They don't elaborate enough on Practical inconveniences as well; The foultasting and dry mouth one gets and the fact that if you are making the caps yourself without precautions it is very likely to cover the room with unremovable (except with TEK) Yellow stains everywhere.
The final and most important thing is that this new approach is not only at least as effective at fat loss or even more so, but also countless times more convenient and with countless less horrible sides!
A REVOLUTION IS UPON US!!
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The new approach to cycling DNP:
DNP has a 36-hour half-life meaning it will build up in your blood and due to it being an exponential 2nd degree math function, after a certain amount of time the accumalative effect will be too small (insignificant) and thus bloodlevels will peak and remain stable...
The international Physics formula for Half-life:
In physics
with:
N(0) = dosage at time zero
N(t) = dosage left at recent time
t(1/2) = half life in seconds/hours/days/years (depending on compound)
N(t) = N (0) x (1/2)^(t/t(1/2))
at 200 mg every day the peaklevel will be 540 mg...
@ day 6 you will already be over 500 mg...!
(but given the margin of error in capping and dosingtimes we take 600 mg as standard!)
more info: http://www.intensityxtrememuscle.co...p=1733#post1733
So a 20 day cycle @ 200 mg ED, will result in a 540 mg peaklevel which is a very comfortable dose for any healthy grown man!
A 20 day cycle will also yield great results, most likely greater than a "horrifying sideful" traditional 8 day cycle @ 400 mg.
Most of you who are trying DNP for the first time are not willing to jump in a
20 day cycle right away, so a 10 or 12 day cycle @ 200 mg will be more suitable, just make sure that you carbdeplete 2 days in advance for optimum results in such a short low dose cycle...
DNP IS NOT SUITABLE FOR WOMEN AND MORBIDLY OBESE PEOPLE!!
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Beneficial Properties:
1. DNP is both Liver and kidneyfriendly.
2. DNP has anti-catabolic properties.
3. DNP boosts the immunesystem
4. DNP is Anti-Carcinogenic
5. DNP is non-hormonal and thus fatloss is easier to maintain
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Sides:
At such a low dose the most likely sides will be:
Sweating (+ feeling hot)
Heavy breathing
Irregular Sleep Pattern
Rashes for some (take an anti-histamine for this, if it lasts discontinue DNP!)
Lethargy
Decreased Strength
Musclecramps (Not likely at all especially at such a dose with enough mineralsupplementation).
Increased Hunger
(especially Sugar-cravings, Sibutramine totally annihilates this side!)
Note:
I got "the rash" the first and last part of the second cycle...
I never took citadrizine HCL...
But by cycle 3 (actually end of cycle 2; so 2,5) I never developed an allergy any more...
Still Anti-histamines can aid in fat loss if supplemented with Ephedrine and Yohimbine!
All these can be combatted to a certain extent...
Practical Sides:
DNP will provide a hideous sent of it under your Armpits due to the sweating
(especially in the last few days) so always wash under your armpits a couple of times a day and put plenty deodorant under it even before bed
(I swear the scent will annoy you in bed).
DNP leaves a foul and dry taste in your mouth all day long; I found out that
drinking Diet Softdrinks helps against it so sweets always get the taste away, but seeing we want to LOSE weight Diet soda is the best option!
(normal softdrinks contain sugar and we WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT
best bets: Fanta, Fanta Pomelo, Fanta Cassis, Fanta Lemon, Coca Cola Lemon, Sprite etc. ALL LIGHT!).
I finish about 2 bottles a day
(Ice cold preferabely also seeing drinking water all day gets tiresome!!).
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Effectivity:
All over messgeboards I read that an ECA boosts metabolism by 3%,
Clen + T3 20% and DNP 50-75%!
I don't know where people get these numbers but it is not true!
Fat loss not only has to do with metabolism, but also with many other processes like affecting alpha and betareceptors
(why Yohimbine has got such fatloss potential for "love handles").
Increased metabolism also means better proteinsynthesis, which is not always the case with these fatburners!
Not to mention a 75%-boost on DNP would not make sense since for instance let's take a 2000 calorie boost (And that would mean a maintenance
Caloric Requirement of about 2800 Kcal a day!!, which is very high!)
--> giving a maximum of 250 gram pure fat loss a day!
That would mean an 8 day cycle would yield a maximum of 2 Kg fatloss
(I know the offdays count as well but that would be compensated by glycogen-reserves, increased appetite etc.).
The real deal:
A degree Fahrenheit increase in BMR on DNP is equal to a
120% boosted Caloric-expense!
Practical Effectivity:
Now here's the big question......
will it yield the same results fat loss-wise as the shorter higher dose cycles?
Yes, not only shall the DNP be more effective, but things like T2 and Yohimbine need longer cycles to work their magic and thus you will have even better results!
(also the fat loss will be more gradually from the ancillaries and thus prove easier to maintain that weight).
Note: The Scale will lie and so will the mirror!
Due to the waterbloat and thus waterweight
(The waterbloat is less obvious then with Deca for instance since it "hides" around the middlesection + lovehandles!), also the carbdepletion will make your muscles appear less "pumped".
So remember that while "on" you will feel fat and bloated and your muscles will be anything but pumped!
Fun thing is 5-7 days after discontinuance you will see the drastic change in the mirror and on the scale!
The feeling one gets when coming off is great
(no more sweating, dry mouth, clearance of bloat etc.)!
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Weightloss is semi-permanent!:
I and many other people have noticed that after a DNP-cycle even after months less than 50% of the weightloss is gained back.
(And that is even with crappy training and diet)
While common rule in dieting is that the more weight one loses in a
short time span, the more likely he/she is to gain all that weight back plus even a bit more fat most of the times (the dreaded YOYO-effect!!).
Also this research confirms that 3 obese people (2 men and a women) after
long term T3 and DNP supplementation lost a lot of weight and managed
TO KEEP IT OFF!
http://www.intensityxtrememuscle.co...736&postcount=2
As to so many cases of people not experiencing a drastic rebound with DNP
(anything that guarantees under 50% of the weightloss gained back is an effective diet-aid in my opinion) it got me thinking as to WHY...
So a simple theory which I came up with:
DNP is so dangerous, because it doesn't involve in a feedback system
(meaning if there is to much present in the blood there is no way the body can combat that).
Also it is non-hormonal
(hormonal systems always have a feedback-mechanism).
This means that it doesn't affect your body's "setpoint"
(which is what your body thinks is your "healthy" weight and thus always wants to return to that point).
Some mechanisms in the "setpoint" are still unknown but it mostly has to do with dopamine/adrenaline and the various Neuropeptides
(especially B, K and Y that all regulate appetite).
The "setpoint" is best adjusted if weightloss is as gradually as possible
(phentermine users always get the yo-yo effect meaning all the lost weight
+ some new fat comes back after discontinuance; not only because fat is lost so rapidly but mainly because it affects all those "setpoint" features and after discontinuance they will try to regain homeostasis!).
DNP has no (significant) role in manipulating the "setpoint"
(meaning your body will not feel the urge to gain some weight after discontinuance).
Also it competes with T3, meaning after you stop DNP, T3 will peak
(instead of like with most diets; will be on low)
couple that with the fact that it is not catabolic
(actually a bit anti-catabolic for that matter) so your BMR stays
rougly the same after the DNP-cycle.
And the conclusion confirms the reality -->
Fat loss induced by DNP is not likely to come back for a significant part!
Note:
Most people supplement certain compounds with DNP -->
I for instance take Sibutramine, T2, T3 and an ECY which are
most likely to be the MAIN cause of the "gained weight afterwards"
due to the KNOWN disturbance of some processes in the body's metabolism by these ancillaries.
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First things, First! --> Obtaining DNP
1) Make it yourself!
Unless you are an experienced homebrewer I can not advise to do this,
DNP stains are impossible to remove (with the exception of with TEKTROL), and the DNP powder is at its cheapest $1 (for small amounts) per gram, considering the fact that you pay $1 for a 200 mg cap on average and you only need a small amount of caps per cycle; it is not worth it...
The pro with making it yourself is that you can add all sorts of things in thus minimizing the amount of tabs/caps/powder one has to swallow.
I used to make them containing per cap:
200 mg DNP
100 mg Quercetin (anti-histamine and anti-oxidant)
10 mg Sibutramine HCL (Appetite suppresant)
150 mg Magnesium Malate
180 mg Synthetic Vitamin E (Comes down to 400 IE/IU)
5 mg Vitamin B12
5 mg Yohimbine HCL
2) Buying them:
As to such a potentially dangerous substance, if over dosed,
I wouldn't buy it unless it was from someone who is really well known.
There is such a guy and he makes the 200 mg DNP caps with 200 mg Quercetin (Anti-histamine and Anti-oxidant) in them for just $1.
If you are a regular on this board and are well respected here, you can ask a mod/vet for his e-mail; Normally i wouldn't post this but it is due to the fact that in case of DNP you have to have a real trusted dealer!
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Usage --> Diet:
Lots of Water! and other fluids like DietSodas!
A diet while on DNP is nonsense since due to its non-hormonal actions there is no benefit in shifting nutrients.
You will get bad sugar-cravings though!
(Yohimbine, Ephedrine and especially Sibutramine are effective in combatting this!).
Just remember that carbs will get you heated
(so after carb intake you will start to feel warm for about 10 minutes, but without carbs you will find everything to taste disgusting!).
The 2 gram per lbs of bodyweight protein rule is also nonsense!
(DNP is not catabolic at all).
Keep your intake of vegetables high
(especially any kind of Lettuce, cubecomber etc.)
Also Fruits (with the exception of Bananas/strawberries/grapes)
do combat a lot of sides
(refrigerate some Apples, Oranges, Mangos, Peaches and a Pineapple and you will have a tasty meal that also makes you feel more at ease while "on").
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Supplementing T2 and T3 or not?:
This has been a controversial subject...
Let's clear some things up (MALLET will thank me for it!):
T3 is NOT catabolic!
In certain amounts it is very ANABOLIC....
T2 + T3 help DNP operate at peak efficiency; Maximizing Fat Loss!
Especially since the thyroid can shut down, the amounts we supplement are quite anabolic/anti-catabolic (Why I GAINED 4 lbs LBM)!
For the people afraid of suppressing their thyroid:
Fact is T3 and DNP compete a little, so supplementing T3 on a DNP-cycle would be far less suppresive on TSH than on a T3/Clen or T3-only cycle.
Not to mention the fact that getting off DNP would give your Thryroid a boost too so recovering would be easier than from the proposed T3-only cycle...
T2 info (there is little info available on such a wonderful substance!):
(((((I read most Pubmed researces on Thyroid-metabolites and found this to be the found most important things to know)))))
- Potencywise: 400 mcg T2 = 50 mcg T3
- T2 is far less catabolic than T3 even when abused:
- T2 is far less supressive on FSH than T3
- 3,5-T2 is more suitable for fat loss than 3,3-T2.
- T2 is only active for about an hour.
- T2 is most effective when supplemented with T3
(or when natural production of T3 is high).
- Although T3 has a long half-life, periodic intervals per day of taking it yields far better results!
T2 is best taken as much divided during the day as possible; 3 is a minimum
(it is only active for one hour and preferabely with meals since it will burn all the fats/carbos you get in immediately!).
T2 unlike T3 is not likely to be catabolic even when abused
(as previously mentioned T3 engaged in proper usage is quite anabolic!).
T2 is available @ Team LR
P.S. Team LR probably uses ethanol (Nail polish remover) as a dissolver so the stuff tastes like crap, right before taking it, put it in an Empty cap
(the cap will dissolve within 2 minutes of coming in contact with a liquid so take it just before!).
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Proper supplementation:
People tend to use TOO MUCH supplements on DNP.
Therefore making it way too complicated and frightening
In low dose cycles the described supplements (below) are more than enough!
In dosages like 600/800/1000 mg ED
Magnesium/Phytochemicals/GSE become essential!
2-10 gram Potassium Gluconoate ED
ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)
2x Vitamin C @ 500 mg
2x Vitamin E @ 400 IU
3x 400 mcg T2
3x 15 mcg T3
Optional:
Ketotifen or Benadryl (preferabely on hand!)
Melatonin (preferabely on hand!)
R-ALA
Magnesium (very useful in higher dosages like 400 mg DNP or more!)
Taurine @ 500 mg ED
ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg):
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400).
Usage: To combat Lethargy, Curb Appetite and Cravings, to free fatty acid for better fatburning and for better fatburning in "stubborn fat".
T2 + T3:
Fatloss, preventing lethargy and maybe even anabolism/anti-catabolism
Vitamin C & Vitamin E:
Basically all the Anti-oxidants you need: A Watersoluble and a Fatsoluble one!
due to their activity-span take twice a day!
Potassium Gluconoate:
You loose alot of minerals through sweating!
The elektrolytes you have to replace are Sodium and Potassium
(in Latin Natrium and Kalium),
sodium is relatively easy to get through ones diet
(tablesalt is sodiumchloride/natriumchloride).
Potassium is a little harder to get
(Still Potassium is present in a lot of vegetables).
10 grams a day of Potassium Gluconoate is best
(actually 10 grams is way overkill especially since that would mean
1,6 gram of Potassiumsupplementation a day for a 200 mg cycle).
2 grams is more than enough...
Potassium Gluconoate will keep strength up and battle muscle cramps!
Potassium gluconoate (16% Potassium) is $20 per 3 lbs at 1fast400!
Ketotifen or Benadryl (Ketotifen is much more potent):
As Anti-histamine (for Allergies)
As sleeping Aid (take before bed!)
Upgrading the Fatcell receptors
Keeping the ECY effective (during longer runs like 30 days)
Melatonin:
Anti-oxdidant + Sleeping Aid.
Taurine
Compensate Taurine Levels in Liver...
Magnesium or R-ala
As Anti-Oxidant!
Obtaining supplements:
1fast400 for all the bulkpowders for the ECY (and all the other supplements)
animalkits for Vitamin E powder
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DNP for PCT: Will elaborate on that later!
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Funny Note:
Hitler gave it to his troops invading russia to keep them warm during Russia's infamous winters!
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Phytochemicals Story!
Morin, Luteolin, Quercetin, Kaempferol and Reservatol are especially good at supressing Sugars from being metabolized
(not to mention their life-extentioning abilities and positive effects on Lipid Levels and Cardiac Function).
Fisetin, Myrecetin, Baicalein, Galangin are far less effective
(In That order --> with the most effective one mentioned first and the least effective one mentioned last).
Epigallocachin, Epicatechin, Hesperetin, Taxifolin, Rutin, Flavonol, Flavone didn't do anything at all....
About Phytochemicals:
Li BH, Tian WX. Inhibitory effects of flavonoids on animal fatty acid synthase. J Biochem. 2004 Jan;135(1):85-91
Grapeseedextract inhibits fatcells from growing instead of inhibiting sugars being metabolized like the other phytochemicals!
About GrapeSeedExtract:
Moreno DA, Ilic N, Poulev A, Brasaemle DL, Fried SK, Raskin I. Inhibitory effects of grape seed extract on lipases. Nutrition. 2003 Oct;19(10):876-9.
Reservatol:
Which frees a lot of fatty acids from stubborn fat, makes fatcells more sensitive for Adrenaline, imitates caloric restriction and actually kills fatcells to a degree!
Not to mention its sex-boosting properties, its lifespan enhancing ability and the fact that it pumps your muscles full of Anti-oxidants especially in a
PWO-shake to make recovery easy and thus produce an anabolic enviroment!
About Reservatol!:
Picard F, Kurtev M, Chung N, Topark-Ngarm A, Senawong T, Machado De Oliveira R, Leid M, McBurney MW, Guarente L. Sirt1 promotes fat mobilization in white adipocytes by repressing PPAR-gamma. Nature. 2004 Jun 17;429(6993):771-6
Konrad Howitz, Kevin Bitterman, Haim Cohen, Dudley Lamming, Siva Lavu, Jason Wood, Robert Zipkin, Phuong Chung, Anne Kisielewski, Li-Li Zhang, Brandy Scherer, David Sinclair. Small molecule activators of sirtuins extend Saccharomyces cerevisiae lifespan. Nature 24 August 2003.
Molecules Discovered That Extend Life In Yeast, Human Cells; Group Of Compounds Found In Red Wine, Vegetables Simulate Benefit Of Low-calorie Diet. Science Daily, 25-8-2003
That's why I wondered a cap containing
a Fatinhibitor like Orlistat (or maybe an even more effective one in the future)
and a Glucose-inhibitor like the mentioned Flavonides and GrapeSeedExtract should make the eating of Fast Food/Junk Food perfectly acceptable!
Greets
Kingofmasters
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Here are two excel spreadsheets I (SV-1) made to help people plan their DNP cycles.
DNP - Single Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between all doses is going to be the same (IE every 12, 24, or 36 hours). It's easier and faster to use.
DNP - Multi Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between doses is going to vary (IE second dose in 24 hours, third dose in 12 hours, fourth dose in 36 hours). Because every dose time needs to be entered individually it takes a little more time to use.