DBol + Sust Cycle... can someone help??

**mikeweb** · 12-15-2004, 05:00 PM

I was wondering what type of cycle you guys would recommend. I want to use some dbol and sust (which i currently have) along with some nolva and clomi (purchased off ARR)

Im 23, 165lbs, 5'8"

I have;
Thai DBol - 300 @ 5mg
Tamox 50 ML 20mg/ml
Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL
Sust (18 amps i think)

I was thinking..
What do you guys think of this cycle? or should I do the dbol for the first 3 weeks by itself or longer, then switch over to the sust?

1-5 30mg dbol ED
1-12 150mg sust EOD
1-12 and pct nolva 10mg ED
12 - 15 Clomi 25mg ed PCT

Thanks

**mikeweb** · 12-17-2004, 08:43 AM

anyone?

**joey11** · 12-17-2004, 09:06 AM

shoot the sust 125mg eod. start the clomid 3 weeks after last shot of sust, 300mg on the 1st day and 100mg ed for 2 weeks should be enough to recover. other than that it looks good.

**bigguy20** · 12-17-2004, 09:13 AM

yeah joeys right the only problem is that your vials have 250 mg/ml im them so once u break them u cant just leave it in there u either need to shoot all of it every time u shoot or break all your vials open and put them in a 20 ml vail... thats the only thing i hate about the little vials... also i dont think youll have enough for 12 weeks. and yes start your d-bols the same day as the sust.

**joey11** · 12-17-2004, 09:17 AM

no, he can load 1ml into syringe and shoot half one day and the other half on the next day. bigguy20 is right you dont have enough for 12 weeks at 500mg ew. you'll need 24 amps to do that.

**bigguy20** · 12-17-2004, 09:22 AM

yeah your right joey, i just personally dont like doing that i feel like its no longer sterile after i do that but yeah you are right though... peace

**TheJuiceBar** · 12-20-2004, 10:55 AM

well i have some organon sustanon250 (India) and my dbols are on their way. I'm on my second week doing:

Weeks 1-12 sust250(organon) 1 amp--e3d
Weeks 3-7 dbol pills(Ciba) (5mg) x 5 pills ed

What are your opinions on the organon sust and dbol by Ciba?
When should I see gains?
How much should I expect?
What and when do you recommend pct?

Here are my specs:

21yrs old, 115lbs, 5'0

**][-][ ][-][ ][-][** · 12-20-2004, 11:19 AM

hey bro i finished my first cycle of dbol & susta & i'm on pct right now so its good cycle for bulking i worked my way from 86kg to 93kg & half here how i ran it

1-4 dbol 30mg
1-12 sustanon 500mg a week injecting every other day
1-12 nolva 20mg
7-12 stanazol 50mg ED

as u can see i add stanazol at the end & started the pct the next day

**mikeweb** · 12-20-2004, 01:50 PM

You think I should throw in some Finasteride and/or Femara in there? I dont want to lose my hair.

**The Baron** · 12-20-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by mikeweb

I was wondering what type of cycle you guys would recommend. I want to use some dbol and sust (which i currently have) along with some nolva and clomi (purchased off ARR)

Im 23, 165lbs, 5'8"

I have;
Thai DBol - 300 @ 5mg
Tamox 50 ML 20mg/ml
Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL
Sust (18 amps i think)

I was thinking..
What do you guys think of this cycle? or should I do the dbol for the first 3 weeks by itself or longer, then switch over to the sust?

1-5 30mg dbol ED
1-12 150mg sust EOD
1-12 and pct nolva 10mg ED
12 - 15 Clomi 25mg ed PCT

Thanks

Okay, first of all it is much more convenient to run the entire amp at once. So let's look at the numbers. You have 18 amps... if you shoot every 3rd day that gives you 18 x 3 = 54 days, call it 8 weeks. Too short. So look at every 4th day... 18 amps x 4 days = 72 days... 10 weeks, about the minimum practical length of a test cycle. That breaks down to 250/4 = 62.5mg/day. Actual practical amounts of free test in the body will vary a good bit because of the test prop and test phenylprop in the sust. Now, compare that to the standard 500mg/week, which is 71.4mg/day. Okay, so 62.5mg/day is a little less, no biggie. Lots of beginners use only 250mg/week which would be only 36mg/day. So running a full amp every 4 days would work okay and give you a 10 week cycle. But you want 12 weeks... so let's crunch some more numbers. An amp every 5 days would work out to 50mg/day, equivelant to 350mg/week. E5D injections with 18 amps give your cycle a duration of 18 x 5 = 90 days = 12.9 weeks. With sust I think I would go with the shorter cycle at 250mg/E4D because of the short esters but it isn't such a big deal. Either one will give you some gains.

As for the Dbol, you don't want to run the dbol for 5 weeks straight. A month is plenty. 4 weeks, actually. THis gives you a good overlap between the dbol and when the sust starts to really kick in. I would run 50mg/day until they are gone...30 days. Alternately you could maybe run 35mg/day for weeks 1-4 and use up 196 of them. Then, 5 days after your last sust shot, run 35mg/day again for 15 days. Actually the last day you will run out at 30mg for the day. Anyway after one clean day, go ahead and start your pct. You will have used up all your sust, all your dbol. So let's look at how you fare with your other chems.

You will probably still have your nolvadex for another cycle because you shouldn't see gyno on those dosages. If you do need it, if you notice any symptoms, use it. Hit it hard, maybe 50mg/day for 3-4 days and then reduce to 10 or 20mg/day until the end of pct. Don't stop taking it once you start! Not until the end of pct.

Now as regards pct, a standard regimen is 300mg day 1, followed by a week at 100mg/day, followed by 2-3 weeks at 50mg/day. If you have 70ml @ 35mg/ml then you have 2450mg, easily enough. 300 + 700 + 1050 = 2050mg.

**TheJuiceBar** · 12-20-2004, 02:14 PM

The baron, you seem to know what your talking about, good post, can you respond to my post above???

**The Baron** · 12-20-2004, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by TheJuiceBar

well i have some organon sustanon250 (India) and my dbols are on their way. I'm on my second week doing:

Weeks 1-12 sust250(organon) 1 amp--e3d
Weeks 3-7 dbol pills(Ciba) (5mg) x 5 pills ed

What are your opinions on the organon sust and dbol by Ciba?
When should I see gains?
How much should I expect?
What and when do you recommend pct?

Here are my specs:

21yrs old, 115lbs, 5'0

Okay... why wait until week 3 to start the dbol? Its function in this sort of stack is to put you in an anabolic condition right away even though the sust mostly kicks in at week 4, and also to get your water retention up a bit befoe you start hitting your joints with all the extra poundages you will be lifting. By week 3, there isn't much point IMO of starting the dbol. Or at least not as much point as starting it in week 1. By week 3, you are just around the corner from feeling strength increases from the sust and seeing growth, which is usually evident by week 5 or so.

You could save your dbol for after your last shot, run it for a couple of weeks at 35 to 50mg/day (ramping up if desired, as the sust is depleted from your body) and then going into pct. Your pct could start as early as 2 weeks after last shot, says some, but I would wait 3 weeks, myself. Waiting the extra time is no big deal if you keep yourself anabolic by using the orals or prop.

Remember that all this stuff is almost as much art as it is science. There are many approaches to the same problem and many possible utilization techniques of the same tools. But if you stick to tried and true programs you will have a better chance of seeing good results than if you just DO something with whatever you got in hand.

**TheJuiceBar** · 12-20-2004, 03:39 PM

good post, thanx alot, the reason i haven't started the dbols is cuz i still havent received it from my source and i should be receiving it soon. I understand what you mean though. How do you feel about organon sust, or better yet, methanabol (dianabol ) by Ciba? is Ciba a good manufacturer? Also how many lbs. should i expect to gain after the 12 weeks, just a rough number?

**The Baron** · 12-20-2004, 07:37 PM

Organon is the real deal in sust. It is THEIR brand name, after all. The dbol I can't say, myself. I have only used the naposim which is pretty decent and hardly ever faked where you can't spot the fake. But you probably should have NOT started the cycle before you had all of your gear, and I mean all of it... including your pct. It really is a good habit to get into, especially as a beginner, when you don't have a whole friggin bouquet of sources. You don't want to get caught with your pants down needing a drug but somehow just can't get your hands on it. ALWAYS make sure you got it all before taking that first shot, including your pins. It takes a lot of the worry and headache out of it.