Thread: Which Test
10-05-2004, 10:55 PM #1Associate Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
Ok guys I have been searching for info on what test to take with deca which I will cycle in a couple of months. I am looking for something pretty weak, all I want is something to counter act the side effects that deca has when taken alone. Can you guys give me some suggestions and doesages, I am doing deca 300 mg 10 weeks. I will be taking novla also, I am really trying to avoid blowing up from water retention,Thanks guys.
10-05-2004, 11:02 PM #2
10-05-2004, 11:19 PM #3Originally Posted by houseofpain
however there will probably be some bloat especially with the deca .
L-dex @ .25mg ED will help with the bloat.
oh yeah, remember to extend your test a week longer than the deca to line up PCT.
10-05-2004, 11:27 PM #4Associate Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
should I run l-dex and novla
10-05-2004, 11:32 PM #5Originally Posted by ToJuice,OrNotToJuice
Yes, always a good idea to help stay away from gyno.
10-05-2004, 11:34 PM #6
10-05-2004, 11:35 PM #7
i would. l-dex for the bloat and nolva for the boobs you don't want. you also need something to prevent the gyno caused by deca (nolva won't help) such as b-6.
l-dex @ .25mg ED
nolva @ 10mg ED
b-6 @ 200mg ED
something like this. this is just an example, everyone is different and has their own preferences. hope this helps a little
10-05-2004, 11:37 PM #8Originally Posted by 1badcamaro
10-06-2004, 12:03 AM #9
bump for test E def a good choice
10-06-2004, 12:04 AM #10Associate Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
Do you guys know where I can find injectable b-6, all i can find is injectable b-12 which contains 5 mg b-6, would that work?
10-06-2004, 12:49 AM #11Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by ToJuice,OrNotToJuice
- Join Date
- May 2002
Now, I'll answer your question.
In general, testosterone is testosterone. In other words, all testosterones work pretty much the same once they reach a steady concentration in your body which can take up to 4 weeks depending on how you run the testosterone.
The testosterones you can choose are:
1. Fast acting esters: testosterone propionate , often called "prop"
2. Long lastsing esters: testosterone enanthate , "enan"; or cypionate , "cyp"
3. Mixed esters: Sustanon or sustonon, "sust"
This is not an exhaustive list, but it gets to the point and lists the most commonly used testosterones.
Now, a bit about each type of ester:
Fast acting esters such as prop make testosterone available to the body quickly--within 1-2 days, but also disipate completely in 2-3 days. The advantage of Prop is that, although it aromatizes (turns into estrogen) more easily than the other testosterones, it is less likely to cause gyno (gynecomastia , "bitch tits") or water retention. In order to be effective, Prop must be injected every day (ED) or every other day (EOD). Prop is not recommended for new users due to the frequent injections required.
Mixed esters (fast and slow esters), such as Sustanon, mix the best of both worlds of fast and slow acting esters. But, its side effects are similar to long acting esters (see below) since it is comprised mostly of long lasting esters of testosterone. Sust can be injected ED, EOD or less frequently. However, due to the fast acting component, you should not use Sust if you don't plan to inject ED, EOD or, at the least, every third day (E3D or E3rdD). If you inject Sust less frequently, then you defeat the effectiveness of its fast acting ester component. Sustanon and Prop are not recommended to beginners due to the frequent injection scheduled required to get the full benefit of each.
Long lasting esters such as Cyp and Enan, slowly release testosterone into the body over 2 weeks and leave the body completely (or become biologically not viable) within 2-3 weeks are the best for beginners. Doses below 400mg per week can be injected once per week, doses greater than or equal to 400mg per week are often split into two or more evenly spaced injections (every Monday & Thrusday, every 4th day, etcetera). Long lasting esters of testosterone can result in water weight (bloat) and gyno.
Although enan and cyp are recommended for beginners over prop and sust, cyp or enan are no less effective than prop or sust.
In the long run, all of the esters of testosterone can cause bloating and gyno. Although prop may cause it less frequently, it's still very possible that a person may develop excessive water weight or gyno. The way to combat this is to use anti-estrogens with your cycle (not always necessary but definitely good to have on hand. Read more about anti-e's before you start your cyle. There's a ton of info on the board about them).
A discussion of doses:
It appears that you are planning to use 300mg of deca every week. The rule of thumb is to run your testosterone at 100mg per week more than your deca mainly to avoid "deca-dick" (temporary impotence or reduced ability to maintain a completely firm erection). So for sustanon, cyp and enan, you can use 400-500mg per week (500mg per week is really not necessary at this point, but many people start with 400 or 500mg per week since the concentrations of cyp, sust and enan are often 200mg/cc or 250mg/cc). Because the ester in prop is lighter (molecular weight-wise) than the esters of cyp and enan, prop is a very little bit more potent than cyp or enan when compared mg to mg. This difference in potence means you can run prop at 50mg every day (350mg per week) and get similar results to running 400-500mg per week of enan or cyp. This difference in potency is insignificant in the long run and should not be the sole reason for choosing prop over cyp or enan.
Do not believe in the myth that more steroids is better or will make you grow faster. Beginners do not need to use an excessive amount of steroids to get awesome results. The following low to moderate dose cycles will yeild about the same results in the same person who is still within his first 3-4 cycles (or more):
Deca @ 200mg per week
Cyp or enan @ 300mg per week
PCT (Post cycle therapy , usually clomid)
Deca @ 300mg per week
Cyp or enan @ 400-500 per week
PCT (Post cycle therapy, usually clomid)
Both of these cycles (listed above), if accompanied by an excellent bulking diet, adequate rest and sufficient training intensity, can yeild an increase of 10-25 lbs. How much of that increase is pure muscle (lean body mass) depends completely on your diet.
Best of luck with your cycle! Don't let anyone push you into using higher doses.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 10-06-2004 at 01:10 AM.
10-06-2004, 02:02 AM #12
Excellent post bro. The second cycle is exactly what I am doing and it is working a treat. I cant farking believe the results !!!!
10-06-2004, 02:33 AM #13
With the amount of gear you're using, and if your diet is in tact, you won't need to worry about "Bloat" and unless you're extremely sensitive, you won't have to worry about Progesterone induced Gyno at the dosage you're running the Deca at.
Stick with Enanthate at 400-500mg or even Prop between 50-100mg ED. If you have the chance, completely ditch the Deca and run EQ. Just my two cents.
10-06-2004, 10:37 AM #14
Good post bask8kace. You always give good advice.
10-06-2004, 10:51 AM #15
great post basketcase, that should clear it up nicely for him.
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