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  1. #1
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    AndroGel and DHT

    Anybody have any information on androgel vs. depot test in relation to rates of conversion to dht?

  2. #2
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Are my assumptions exaggerated about dht and the gel?

    Long-term testosterone gel (AndroGel ) treatment maintains beneficial effects on sexual function and mood, lean and fat mass, and bone mineral density in hypogonadal men.

    Wang C, Cunningham G, Dobs A, Iranmanesh A, Matsumoto AM, Snyder PJ, Weber T, Berman N, Hull L, Swerdloff RS.

    Departments of Medicine/Pediatrics, Harbor-University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509, USA. wang@gcrc.rei.edu

    Transdermal testosterone (T) delivery represents an effective alternative to injectable androgens. We studied 163 hypogonadal men who applied 5, 7.5, or 10 g AndroGel (T gel) 1% CIII per day for up to 42 months. Efficacy data were presented in 123 subjects considered evaluable. Continuous AndroGel treatment normalized mean serum T and free T levels. Mean serum 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone/T ratio slightly increased, mean serum estradiol/T ratio doubled, and mean serum FSH and LH levels were suppressed by T replacement. Sexual function and mood parameters improved rapidly and were maintained throughout T treatment. Lean body mass increased (P = 0.0001) and fat mass decreased (P = 0.0001), and these changes were maintained with treatment but were not accompanied by significant increases in muscle strength. Increases in serum bone markers suggestive of increased bone formation were followed by gradual and progressive increases in bone mineral density more in the spine (P = 0.0001) than the hip (P = 0.0004). Mild local skin irritation occurred in 12 subjects, resulting in discontinuation in only one subject. Except for the anticipated increase in hematocrit and hemoglobin, there were no clinically significant changes in blood counts or biochemistry. In three subjects with elevated serum prostate-specific antigen, prostate biopsies showed cancer. We conclude that continued application of AndroGel resulted in beneficial effects similar to those with injectables and other transdermal preparations. This study was neither placebo controlled nor powered to determine the effects of T treatment on prostate cancer risk. Thus, monitoring for prostatic disease and assessment for erythrocytosis are strongly advised to reduce the risk of adverse events with T treatment of hypogonadal men.

  3. #3
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    FContact's .02 on the subj

    Transdermal applications have a lower bioavailability than IM injections, therefore injections of depot test would increase T levels better then a transdermal application which also means that DHT levels would increase more with the depot test injections. Even in trials of two topical gels Testim and Androgel, Testim had the higher bioavailability and there for increased serum testosterone levels better than androgel, but it also did increase DHT levels as well........
    I know SWALE has stated that transdermal methods of test delivery has a higher ratio of dht conversion.
    Anyone have an opinion, please?

  4. #4
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quoting SWALE:
    The transdrmal delivery systems produce way more DHT than injectable test cyp, for instance. This fact is well known and well proven.

    It's just common knowledge amongst those who know about TRT.

    It results from the fact that the hormone which converts T into DHT is found in high concentrations in the skin.

    Seems all the info i dig up, the more confused i get

  5. #5
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    more

    Pharmacokinetics, efficacy, and safety of a permeation-enhanced testosterone transdermal system in comparison with bi-weekly injections of testosterone enanthate for the treatment of hypogonadal men.

    Dobs AS, Meikle AW, Arver S, Sanders SW, Caramelli KE, Mazer NA.

    Johns Hopkins Medical Center, Baltimore, Maryland 21287, USA. adobs@jhu.edu

    The pharmacokinetics, efficacy, and safety of the Androderm testosterone (T) transdermal system (TTD) and intramuscular T enanthate injections (i.m.) for the treatment of male hypogonadism were compared in a 24-week multicenter, randomized, parallel-group study. Sixty-six adult hypogonadal men (22-65 years of age) were withdrawn from prior i.m. treatment for 4-6 weeks and then randomly assigned to treatment with TTD (two 2.5-mg systems applied nightly) or i.m. (200 mg injected every 2 weeks); there were 33 patients per group. Twenty-six patients in the TTD group and 32 in the i.m. group completed the study. TTD treatment produced circadian variations in the levels of total T, bioavailable T, dihydrotestosterone, and estradiol within the normal physiological ranges. i.m. treatment produced supraphysiological levels of T, bioavailable T, and estradiol (but not dihydrotestosterone) for several days after each injection. Mean morning sex hormone levels were within the normal range in greater proportions of TTD patients (range, 77-100%) than i.m. patients (range, 19-84%). Both treatments normalized LH levels in approximately 50% of patients with primary hypogonadism; however, LH levels were suppressed to the subnormal range in 31% of i.m. patients vs. 0% of TTD patients. Both treatments maintained sexual function (assessed by questionnaire and Rigiscan) and mood (Beck Depression Inventory) at the prior treatment levels. Prostate-specific antigen levels, prostate volumes, and lipid and serum chemistry parameters were comparable in both treatment groups. Transient skin irritation from the patches was reported by 60% of the TTD patients, but caused only three patients (9%) to discontinue treatment. i.m. treatment produced local reactions in 33% of patients and was associated with significantly more abnormal hematocrit elevations (43.8% of patients) compared with TTD treatment (15.4% of patients). Gynecomastia resolved more frequently during TTD treatment (4 of 10 patients) than with i.m. treatment (1 of 9 patients). Although both treatments seem to be efficacious for replacing T in hypogonadal men, the more physiological sex hormone levels and profiles associated with TTD may offer possible advantages over i.m. in minimizing excessive stimulation of erythropoiesis, preventing/ameliorating gynecomastia, and not over-suppressing gonadotropins.

  6. #6
    AustrianOAK14's Avatar
    AustrianOAK14 is offline Senior Member
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    nice info brother

  7. #7
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOAK14
    nice info brother
    thanks, but i sure am starting to look like a chump here huh? No one has an opinion of their own here?

  8. #8
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
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    Great info....I'm not sure what else to add. Great studies. I don't know anything about the gel. I do know that my Dr. did tell me he does NOT like to use the gel. He's run into to many issues with it.

  9. #9
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    I have used the gel in the past for HRT. Theres really not that much delivered from the transdermal (1%). Thats 10mgs per day. I don't think that androgel can even compare to depot test in the conversion department.

  10. #10
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsofwar
    I have used the gel in the past for HRT. Theres really not that much delivered from the transdermal (1%). Thats 10mgs per day. I don't think that androgel can even compare to depot test in the conversion department.
    My concerns at the moment arent really concerning overall test conversion, primarily the role dht plays. I guess i will find out first hand when i have some bloodwork done in the next week.

  11. #11
    dogsofwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 956Vette
    My concerns at the moment arent really concerning overall test conversion, primarily the role dht plays.
    Thats what I was saying. Your thread stated "rates of conversion to dht?"
    Good luck, let us know.

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