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  1. #1
    dknyspe is offline Junior Member
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    Why not just EQ?

    I read this a lot. Many (not all) users of AS advise to never ever do only EQ, but to mix test in to not shut down your system, ok fair enough, I understand that.

    However, I do not want to do anymore test for awhile, at least untill I am 30, I've three cycles of sustanon with EQ/winny and at this point in my life I don't have the time or dedication to commit myself to a test cycle. (and I cant train heavy, too many injuries).

    Plus I am happy with my stats, 25 6"2 - 210 pds around 12% bodyfat.

    My question is this, I have had a shoulder (impigment syndrom)injury & Knee (tendonitis) for sometime and I've read that EQ is great for aching joints. Is this true, any experience with this, is it worth it.

    And since I won't do test with the EQ, what can I use to avoic a "shut down". HCG , Tribulus, Viagra.

    Has anyone had any experience of just EQ, I would like to hear some of your comments, how did you feel? What were your gains? What kind of sides? ETC...

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
    nsa
    nsa is offline King of Supplements
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    If you can't train heavy often then why are you wanting to use steroids ???

  3. #3
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
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    No dedication=very unhappy cycle. I just don't get your point. You have dedication for EQ, but not for TEST? Doesn't make sense. I still don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to run TEST. It's amazing. If you get bloated, try Test Prop.

    Test Prop and EQ= great results!!!!!

  4. #4
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
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    Oh BTW, EQ is NOT good for your joints! It actually is quite the opposite. If you have joint issues, try a low dose of DECA .

  5. #5
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by buylongterm
    Oh BTW, EQ is NOT good for your joints! It actually is quite the opposite. If you have joint issues, try a low dose of DECA.
    Agreed. Eq dried my joints out and I've had tendonitis ever since.

  6. #6
    Jay Man's Avatar
    Jay Man is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah, on my last EQ/Winnie cycle my joints were killing me. I've never heard it was good for joint pain. Maybe you have that confused with Deca .

  7. #7
    ODC0717 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Listen to what these bros are saying. Deca will help with the joint soreness. However, depending on what dose you use, you can kiss Mr. Happy bye-bye! Deca shuts you down (any nandrolone /tren will do so), in order to combat this and keep the Mrs. or the women happy you will need TEST. At least 100mg more then deca. If not..well then my friend, I hope you enjoy loney saturday nights and perhaps a tad bit of depression because you can't get it up-or keep it up for that matter.

  8. #8
    calidude's Avatar
    calidude is offline Senior Member
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    Why is it that a lot of people on this board are confusing EQ with Deca ? This isn't the first post.

  9. #9
    nsa
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    I don't think anyone is confusing the too. Eq is not good for your joints, ligaments and tendons. Deca helps ease joint pain alot. Eq gives very clean gains, deca does not, it gives wet gains IMO.

  10. #10
    BlueCollar is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsa
    I don't think anyone is confusing the too. Eq is not good for your joints, ligaments and tendons. Deca helps ease joint pain alot. Eq gives very clean gains, deca does not, it gives wet gains IMO.
    There are some threads on this board containing posts of studies saying that EQ (and Deca ) increase collagen synthesis by over 200%. At that time many people like Einstien and others said that collagen synthesis is the fondation of ligament and tendon strength.

    I think the confusoin is tendons/ligaments vs. joint lubrication. Deca lubes you but EQ dries you while at same time growing ligs/tendons.

  11. #11
    Anhydro78's Avatar
    Anhydro78 is offline Anabolic Member
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    If you want to use steroids for their theraputic benifits use Test Enanthate 250-350mgs a week and Deca at the same dose. Taking Equipoise by itself will make you loose any intensity you have right now. You will not have a positive result from cycling Equipoise by itself.

  12. #12
    Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anhydro78
    If you want to use steroids for their theraputic benifits use Test Enanthate 250-350mgs a week and Deca at the same dose. Taking Equipoise by itself will make you loose any intensity you have right now. You will not have a positive result from cycling Equipoise by itself.
    I agree, but I would run the deca a little lower than the test. Plus for me, the hunger pains are a bitch with eq. Hungry ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #13
    Jay Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowa
    I agree, but I would run the deca a little lower than the test. Plus for me, the hunger pains are a bitch with eq. Hungry ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
    You got it, I was starving all the time. Great for consuming mass quantities. I got sick pumps as well.

  14. #14
    dknyspe is offline Junior Member
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    OK, I think the beginning reply's missed my point.

    I cannot train heavy for the moment because of my various injuries, not one is huge, but the sum of all the moderates = to a hurting body.

    So being injured means I cannot train with intensity or heavy. Beleive me, I would like to, but I can't so no point in doing test, drol, etc..

    But I have heard from various sources (this site, others, people, trainers) that certain substances could help my body heal, like test (but I won't do test to heal)

    When asked which ones I got back Deca , EQ, test, GH etc...

    EQ is the cheapest and safest so I decided I would do some research and find out what others thought.

  15. #15
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by calidude
    Why is it that a lot of people on this board are confusing EQ with Deca? This isn't the first post.
    Because DaBull used to write many messages that stated EQ 20% was better for your joints then Deca . I never done EQ so I dont know the difference from personal experience.

    Am I not mistaken but isnt it such that EQ is no different from Deca, test or others in that no training means the steroid will do NOTHING for you. In fact the one steroid most likely to loose fat and gain muscle tone even with ZERO effort would actually be testosterone and not EQ.

    BTW guy, as for healing of the body, without a doubt, any substance that causes water gain/bloat is what you want! Combination of deca and test will give you lots of this. The reason why is water bloat is not just water bloat. In that water is lots of surplus protein, calcium, nitrogen, etc that the body is retaining. This puts an abundance of nutrients in locations all over your body, in the joints, tendons, muscles, etc and the high availability of nutrients near the injury site causes your best growth and healing. This is why so many guys prefer deca/test as the best muscle grower cycle. And the water bloat does go away after the cycle is done but you also get the best keepability in this cycle over any other. EQ and winny dehydrate you and sometimes cause the reverse effect causing nutrient deficiencies to your injured areas.
    Last edited by Ntpadude; 10-15-2004 at 10:00 AM.

  16. #16
    nsa
    nsa is offline King of Supplements
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    Quote Originally Posted by dknyspe
    OK, I think the beginning reply's missed my point.

    I cannot train heavy for the moment because of my various injuries, not one is huge, but the sum of all the moderates = to a hurting body.

    So being injured means I cannot train with intensity or heavy. Beleive me, I would like to, but I can't so no point in doing test, drol, etc..

    But I have heard from various sources (this site, others, people, trainers) that certain substances could help my body heal, like test (but I won't do test to heal)

    When asked which ones I got back Deca , EQ, test, GH etc...

    EQ is the cheapest and safest so I decided I would do some research and find out what others thought.
    Primo IMO is one of the better steroids for healing tendons and ligaments. But i would do it with test. What is your problem with test???

  17. #17
    capone_22 is offline Junior Member
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    here's what i found on CJM... deals with deca , eq, tendons, joints etc.

    SORRY, it's pretty long.

    While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

    Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

    Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

    Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

    You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

    Deca, Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

    While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

    To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

    Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

    Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

    Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

    Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

    These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

    Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

    Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

    GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

    Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

    Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

  18. #18
    Latimus's Avatar
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    lack of dedication?? did i read that

  19. #19
    dknyspe is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks, I will add in 1 cc of Test e, and just eat lean.

    Oh, and no loss of dedication here, I am pretty dedicated to maintaing my hard work over the past half-decade. I just am sick and tired of knee, lower back, neck and shoulder pain. To me, this pain does more to hurt my sex-drive than any chemical that goes into my body,

    Thanks for all your help.

    "Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!"

    Oh, one last question, since I will run one does of Test E a week, do I still need to use nolvadex during?

  20. #20
    fundo is offline New Member
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    i know everyone is diffrent...but i took eq once and it made me like a jack rabbit

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