gains and impressions after 10 wks...

**fabry** · 10-15-2004, 11:39 AM

.. of my cycle:
1-4 pink dbols 30mg ed (with liver protectants)
1-12 norma deca (for joints: started with 100mg wk, up to 200mg starting wk 6)
1-14 bd test cyp 500mg wk
1-14 bd eq 400mg wk
15-17 nordic virormone (prop) 150mg eod
1-17 nolva 10mg ed
1-17 proviron 25mg ed (started with 50mg, but down to 25mg after 4 wks)
18-21 phednoo's pct with nolva and clomid

--diet: im not eating "like a pig" coz didnt want to grow too fast (and too much). i think im takin 1.2-1.5 gr MAX of prot per lb.
--training: 4-5 times per wk
--gains/strength/pumps: +14-15 lbs in 10wks! good gains with strength, but not impressive. good pumps (from eq i think) since the last couple of wks.
--water retention: NO (or at least minimum). i think nolva-proviron combo is working great and is better thing than nolva-ldex.
--increased sex drive: NO. well... dont see any difference. also, i didnt "feel" anything "strange" that told me "test is kickin in"... and i heard a lot of people dont feel it.
--testicules size: they are gettin smaller, definitly. i started to use tribulus @ 3gr ed since wk 8 but dunno if it is workin.

well, what i can say is that im happy with this cycle, even if next one ill use some hcg for sure.
also, im having bad night sweats since last week... what could it be?

feel free to reply to this thread... ciao

**fabry** · 10-15-2004, 12:16 PM

^^^^^^

**fabry** · 10-15-2004, 07:04 PM

i dont think 15 lbs of "lean" gains is such a bad result... or, worse, the result of a bad diet and training combo.
as i said... pumps are good BUT for the last couple of wks only... and if it's true that eq gives its best after 12 wks, what did i say that is so "stupid"?
strength gains are ok BUT not impressive: i didnt say im not happy with strength gains!
also, remember i specified im not eatin like a pig coz i didnt want to gain too much and too fast...
im happy with this cycle (15lbs in 10wks, i repeat) and the only thing i "could complain" is strength! the cycle i did before was dbols and test enant and i found strength gains were more "impressive". weight gains were faster but i bloated a lot... and aftert dbols i lost most of that gains from water.

i just wrote this thread coz i wanted people to know that NOT ALWAYS u feel the test kickin in, or u get huge pumps from eq after 4-5 wks, etc etc...
I JUST WROTE MY IMPRESSIONS

dflood, do u think 14-15 lbs of "lean" gains are related to "something seriously wrong" with my diet and my training?

**fabry** · 10-16-2004, 03:33 AM

anyone else?

**damian** · 10-16-2004, 06:58 AM

yah....with that amounts of AAS u should have grown much more......i'll agree with dfood......its all in your diet......jmho

**fabry** · 10-16-2004, 07:57 AM

why do u both say "with that amount of gear"?!? i thought 500mg of test 400mg of eq (and 200 of deca only for the last 4 wks) was not a huge quantity. and im only on wk 10 of this cycle...
i thought 15 lean lbs in 10 wks was a good result, but seem like im wrong...

**fabry** · 10-16-2004, 08:42 AM

sorry bro, didnt mean to be rude and that is why i put "stupid" lbetween the " ".
regardin to strength gains i tried to explain u that im not impressed coz previous cycle i used dbols and test only and i got more strength (probably because i left bloat doin it's job and didnt care about it...).
my only question now is: is 15lbs of lean gains such a bad result so far? how much i was supposed to gain with a proper diet and training in 10 wks? 20-25lbs?
this is what i dont understand...

**MotoLifter** · 10-16-2004, 09:42 AM

sounds good to me fab. Keep at it.

**Ntpadude** · 10-16-2004, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by fabry

i dont think 15 lbs of "lean" gains is such a bad result... or, worse, the result of a bad diet and training combo.

dflood, do u think 14-15 lbs of "lean" gains are related to "something seriously wrong" with my diet and my training?

Its fairly typical. 20 to 25 lbs are possible but often this includes FAT gain when you get that high. The problem is, you might not think you have water gain but when you exit the cycle and go into PCT, I can guarantee you without a doubt, you'll loose between 5 and 10 lbs within 2 to 3 weeks after your last injection. Its not that you ever really gained 15 lbs in actual muscle gain, what you really gained is what your total net increased weight is 4 weeks after you exit your cycle, so dont be suprised if all you actually got out of this cycle was between 5 and 8 lbs. The rest is just typical water bloating.

**itsallmental** · 10-16-2004, 10:10 AM

thats it? you only gained 14/15 lbs in 10 weeks bro? all together including water? IMO thats not too good. do you really understand that you need to be eating 2grams of protein per bodyweight regardless of your goals and if your trying to gain, maybe even 3g? do you understand the process of testosterone and when it increases protein absorbtion etc/etc?

i mean, im not trying to sound like a dick, and if youve been cycling for awhile those gains are fine. but if your just starting out and your up only 14 lbs bro theres something wrong. your gonna keep like what, 9 lbs after your done with the cycle and the water is gone? in the time it takes you to run your actual cycle and stay off for the same amount of time you coulda attained a few quality pounds naturally.

**BlueCollar** · 10-16-2004, 10:47 AM

yep... if this is your first cycle - you should get the best gains from it. 10 weeks of hard natural work and eating can gain you 10-15 # easy.

just remember - DIET IS EVERYTHING - you can bulk or cut on almost any drug. If you arent gaining - you arent eating enough. If you are getting fat - your eating wrong. Simple as that.

good luck bro

Originally Posted by itsallmental

...but if your just starting out and your up only 14 lbs bro theres something wrong. your gonna keep like what, 9 lbs after your done with the cycle and the water is gone? in the time it takes you to run your actual cycle and stay off for the same amount of time you coulda attained a few quality pounds naturally.

**fabry** · 10-16-2004, 05:28 PM

well, seems like i cannot explain myself in your language... sorry, im italian.
im not eating 2gr of protein just coz i dont want to. and im only on wk 10 of my cycle and before i finish it i hope i can arrive at +20lbs (lean or not, water or not...).
somebody comment this cycle (and gains from it) like it is my first one: NO! it's my second cycle (pls read all thread before sayin things).
i know how to eat, i know how to train... at least i think, after more than 10 years at the gym (even if i was not constant, for different reasons).
i live in a small town where people know me well and in my gym anything about aas is a TABOO! that is why i didnt want to put on 25-30lbs in 10 wks (and i dunno how people can put on that weight eating "clean"). seems like most of you gained between 20 and 30 lbs of lean mass from each cycle... lucky u!
if i finish this cycle (after pct) with + 10/12 lbs of lean gains, ill be more than happy!
i have another 6-7 wks to go... let's see what happen.

thanks for your replies... ciao

**itsallmental** · 10-16-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by fabry

if i finish this cycle (after pct) with + 10/12 lbs of lean gains, ill be more than happy!

ya but bro, what im saying is, if you would of busted balls training natty, without the drugs, you could of attained what your goals are, which are, gaining a little muscle slowly at a time? why use anabolics when you dont need to?

**fabry** · 10-17-2004, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by itsallmental

ya but bro, what im saying is, if you would of busted balls training natty, without the drugs, you could of attained what your goals are, which are, gaining a little muscle slowly at a time? why use anabolics when you dont need to?

this is a quite funny question! why do we all use aas if it's so "easy" to gain muscle? i dont think WE are all going to try to compete in this sports, but most of US use aas! i think u know the answer to your question bro...
im 33 and in 1996 i had a car accident and spent 2 years between hospitals and other places for physical rehabilitation.
before that accident i was 85kg and i was happy with my body (im 183 cm). after that accident i went down to 70kg (-30lbs or more!). as soon as i was able to go back to the gym, i did and i started to improve.
it was "easy" to go back to 78-80kg but after that it started to be VERY diffifult to gain muscle (especially on my legs, due to the accident).
i didnt think about aas till last year... really.
i tried all kind of training, diets, etc etc coz i wanted to go back to normal, but nothing!
this is the rieason of aas.
with my first cycle (dbols and test for 8wks) reached the 83-84kg (im talking about real gains after pct!). but my legs grow slow comparing to my upper body. i was "stupid" coz i trained all my muscle in the same way even if i knew i was going to have different reaction between upper-lower body parts.
so, i decided to do another cycle and change my workouts, my diet, etc etc.
and this time is workin much better. legs are still smaller but the differnce is not so big.
with ONLY: good diet, good training, huge quantities of creatine, proteins, carbs, etc etc... believe me, i was not goin to be able to reach this goal.
that is why...
i see people here... 19...20.. sometimes youger that says: im going to the gym since i was 17 and now im ready ofr aas.
and they get answers like: wait until u are 21 (?!?) this is a "funny" answer, i think.
im 33, i repeat, and i think i know what im doing. FOR SURE I MAKE SOMETHING WRONG, im not pefect!
what im sure 100% is that this is the only way (and the fastest) reach my goal.
i dont intend to put on a couple of lean lbs every 6-12 months and reach my goal when im 40.
and i think this is the way OUR brains are workin...

**workdude** · 10-17-2004, 09:41 AM

Everyone's body respondes differently. If your happy with 10-15 lbs great. If not rethink what your doing make some changes,,diet,training,cardio, ect and go at it again. Just my thoughts.

**Ultimate** · 10-17-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by fabry

if i finish this cycle (after pct) with + 10/12 lbs of lean gains, ill be more than happy!

I agree with you if all you want is that much muscle, even if you could've gotten more them more power to you. I guess the other guys misunderstood what you wanted to acomplish in your cycle, like I said if that is all you want to acomplish, good for you.