Thread: i dont get it!!!
10-18-2004, 05:39 PM #1
i dont get it!!!
ay guys, whats the diff between slin and igf-1? whats better?
10-18-2004, 05:50 PM #2
Long™R3IGF-I is an analog of human IGF-I.
· It is a superior alternative to insulin in serum-free media.
· It increases protein production by cells in culture medium.
· It increases cell viability by inhibiting apoptosis.
· It has a longer half-life in cell culture than insulin.
· It is readily available.
· There is secure and ample manufacturing capacity at GroPep Limited.
· No animal- or human- derived material is used in the manufacture or storage of Long™R3IGF-I.
· Long™R3IGF-I is already being used in the manufacture of three (3) biopharmaceuticals approved by FDA and EMEA.
Frequently Asked Questions
What cell types will respond to Long™R3IGF-I?
All cells that have a Type I IGF receptor will potentially respond. Most commercially used cells including CHO, fibroblasts and hybridomas have a type I IGF receptor. All cells which respond to pharmacological concentrations of insulin (>1 mg/liter) will respond to Long™R3IGF-I (10-50 mg/liter).
Is storage of the stock solution at 4°C acceptable?
How long is the stock solution stable for under these storage conditions?
Liquid stability data shows that Long™R3IGF-I is stable for 3 years (-20°C to 37°C). Therefore, the stock solution should be stable at 4°C for 3 years.
What type of preparation is available?
Liquid formulation, preferable for GMP production.
Freeze dried preparation.
Is Long™R3IGF-I stable?
Re-test date for freeze-dried peptide is 3 years. Liquid formulation stability studies have recently been completed. It is stable for 3 years (-20°C to +37°C). We have data indicating stability in media at 4°C for 1 year.
Here is an article written by a self-experimenter.
December 15, 2000
Answer: What a perfect question! You actually have talked to just the right person. I have a business associate that worked for the company that produces this in Australia. Several years ago, I ordered 10mg of Long R3 IGF-1 and used it for several months. What I found out was truly amazing.
Before I tell you about my results, let me tell you that if you are going to use IGF-1 then make sure it is the Long R3 version! Let me explain. Regular IGF-1 like what is produced in your body is transported around connected to binding proteins. There are quite a few of these and their main purpose is to grab ahold of the IGF-1 peptide and keep it from being quickly degraded. Without these binding proteins, all of the IGF-1 would be metabolized in the body within a few minutes. The problem (at least it seems like a problem but might actually be a good thing) is that these binding proteins basically prevent the IGF-1 from performing its function. As long as IGF-1 is attached to the binding protein it cannot do the cool stuff that it wants to do. Regular IGF-1 must be released from its binding protein in order to accomplish its mission. Part of the problem is that much of the IGF-1 is degraded before it is released (seems like much is wasted doesn’t it?)
With Long R3 IGF-1 this problem doesn’t exist. Understand that the Long R3 version does not bind to the various binding proteins. It is free to move throughout your body and immediately start doing all the cool stuff that it wants to do. Again, understand that the Long R3 version is several orders of magnitude stronger than regular IGF-1.
If you would happen to use regular IGF-1, you would need several milligrams per day in order to get the desired effect. With the Long R3 version, you need only microgram quantities. Long R3 is also inherently MUCH cheaper to produce. What I am saying is that for the average person, regular IGF-1 is not practical-it is too expensive and you need to use too much. With Long R3 IGF-1, the price to results ratio is pretty good!
Something else I want to explain is how I went about preparing it for injection into my body. Unfortunately, this is not easy and the average person will have a hard time doing it. At the time, I worked in a sophisticated lab which had all of the necessary equipment. I ordered 10mg of Long R3 IGF-1 and it came in a single flip-top vial. 10mg might not seem like much but believe me, when it comes to Long R3 IGF-1, it is a ton! Some people might say to just add saline to the vial, keep it in the fridge and inject it when necessary. However, this will not work well because the IGF-1 is not highly stable and will degrade in an aqueous environment. 10mg was enough for many months and I needed a way that would allow the IGF-1 to remain potent during this entire time. I did my research and developed my method. I ordered what is known as microvials and sterilized them. I then diluted the IGF-1 with sterile water and added just a tad of acid to increase stability. Although it took quite a while, I then used a micropipette and alliquotted an amount of solution that contained 50mcg into one of my microvials. I closed the microvial and then froze it in a deep freezer. When I was ready to inject, I took out one or more of my microvials, thawed it out, combined it with saline and injected it.
When I first started taking Long R3 IGF-1, I used 50mcg every other day. Amazingly, within days, I started noticing some effects in my body. I felt super hungry all of the time and just felt “anabolic ”. I can’t describe this feeling except to say that it was very similar to being on anabolic steroids (I wasn’t on at the time). Within one month, I gained almost 17 pounds of fairly lean mass! After the first month, something happened though and I noticed that it didn’t seem to be working that well. I upped the dosage several times over the next month to keep up the desired effects. On the third month, I was using several hundred micrograms per day but wasn’t noticing any further gains. All in all, I gained about 20 pounds of pretty solid mass!
Please notice that almost all of my gains were within the first month of taking the Long R3 IGF-1. After this first month, my gains slowed down considerably and eventually stopped altogether even though I was taking high dosages. Why did this happen?
From all of my research, I suppose one of two things might have happened to prevent me from making further gains. What I truly suspect is that the Long R3 IGF-1 downregulated the amount of binding proteins being produced by my body (research confirms this). When I first started to inject the IGF-1, I was supplementing my own body’s IGF-1. I not only had my own IGF-1 working throughout the day but I had the potent surges of Long R3 IGF-1 that I would inject. Over time though, the binding proteins were downregulated. Of course my body continued to produce some (albeit less) IGF-1, however, because there were very little or no binding proteins it was quickly degraded. From what I can tell, I was in a state where 95% of the day my body did not have the benefits of IGF-1. Basically, it got what it got when I injected the Long R3 version.
The other possibility is that I built up antibodies to the Long R3 IGF-1 which basically sought out and destroyed what I injected. Although possible, I don’t believe this actually happened because it is not supported by research. I have seen no evidence which suggests that Long R3 IGF-1 causes antibody production.
To fix the above problem, one would have to cycle the Long R3 IGF-1. The best thing would probably be to take it every other month. This would allow your own body’s IGF-1 and binding proteins to return to normal.
Overall, I had a good experience with Long R3 IGF-1. The results were different than with steroids . I have noticed that steroids cause preferential growth of certain muscles, especially those that are stressed (as in lifting). The IGF-1 though seemed to cause my entire body to get a little thicker. I guess IGF-1 is less compensatory in nature and exerts a more whole-body anabolicity.
Would I recommend IGF-1? To the right person who is very careful and knows what he’s doing and has a good background in the sciences and has access to a good lab, YES! However, you can tell that I have listed many prerequisites to using it. For the average Joe, I believe is is just too complicated to be safe.
10-18-2004, 05:52 PM #3
INSULIN : NonAndrogenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone , or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...
WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!
10-18-2004, 05:54 PM #4
WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin . The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.
DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
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