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  1. #1
    xxsirhcxx's Avatar
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    question about ephedra...

    I am using my boyfriend's account and I am thinking about taking ephedra to lose some weight i've gained. Im 5'3 and I weigh 145lbs, excpet I don't look it. My boyfriend says my muscle weighs more than my fat. I was wondering if anyone here has taking it before or knows anything about it that can help me out? thanks...

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    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    Are you talking ephedrine HCL or regular ephedra? Either case, You can try an ECA stack. Ephedra (or ephedrine HCL), Caffeine, aspirin.
    E-25mg C-200mg A-1tab. 2-3 times per day.

  3. #3
    xxsirhcxx's Avatar
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    im going to take ephedra and capheine, but why do i need aspirin ???

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    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    Ephedrine stimulates the release of norepinephrine (noradrenaline), which in turn, stimulates the synthesis of prostaglandins by the activated tissues. Aspirin inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins and serves as a prostaglandin blocker, and therefore may prevent inhibition of norepinephrine release.
    Last edited by bluestrm; 10-20-2004 at 06:09 PM.

  5. #5
    xxsirhcxx's Avatar
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    woooaaahhh right....im only a girl! english please? im a BIT confused haha

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    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    LOL! Just use the aspirin. It helps with the effects you want.

  7. #7
    xxsirhcxx's Avatar
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    sheesh! fine! haha

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    I wouldnt suggest using aspirin with EC, I know they make ECA and all, but i read somewhere about how to much aspirin is good for u and what not ....replace the A with Grean Tea Extract....So if you want a killer homemade stimulant combo, go with Ephdrine HCL, Caffeen, and Great Tea Extract,...
    I got great results off just EC once aday before workouts.....
    Iv said quite a bit on EC, check out these links
    Ephedrine
    ephedra profile
    Last edited by brewski053; 10-20-2004 at 06:11 PM.

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    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    Well, Green Tea does help, but you should use the aspirin in the stack.

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    ok, i found it...It can be potentially catabolic to muscles, not to mention it is an anti-inflammitory
    "Aspirin - Another negative feedback mechanism that may blunt the thermogenic response to ephedrine is prostaglandin release (10). Therefore, it is theorized that a prostaglandin inhibitor such as aspirin will potentiate the thermogenic response. The studies in this area are conflicting. In two studies done by Horton measuring the thermogenic response to a single dose of ephedrine, one found aspirin to increase thermogenesis in obese but not lean women, and another found no potentiation by aspirin with an ephedrine/caffeine combination in both lean and obese women (31, 32). However, a rat study found aspirin to markedly potentiate weight loss caused by ephedrine (33). Another complication here is that anti-inflammatories may interfere with protein synthesis (34). In the end, the addition of aspirin is a toss-up, as it probably potentiates the fat loss but may also be catabolic to muscle. "

  11. #11
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    wait wait wait...STOP! now im really confused. i dont want to die! haha
    someone tell me what im really supposed to take please!

  12. #12
    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    Use the E and C. The Aspirin can be used or if you want, don't use it. I would though! Even though it says it can be catabolic to muscle, it is not going to be a significant amount. It is a far stretch. The only thing that I know of for getting lean that is really significantly catabolic is T3.

  13. #13
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    catabolic to muscle? but im a girl.i dont have much muscle...i just wanna burn fat, thats all.

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    you realize that there is no magic pill right...? Weightloss depends alot on diet and routine, the EC will just give u a boost in buring fat...It doesnt mean u can pop em then eat McDonalds and sit on ur arse all the time and expect to lose weight....
    If your so conserned about EC nothing enough, take it with Grean Tea Extract, you will not be disapointed.....Infact I bet after the first day you try it ya'll cut out the green tea..Cuz i know EC was good for me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestrm
    Use the E and C. The Aspirin can be used or if you want, don't use it. I would though! Even though it says it can be catabolic to muscle, it is not going to be a significant amount. It is a far stretch. The only thing that I know of for getting lean that is really significantly catabolic is T3.
    Yes T3 does aswell, but since Aspirin is an anti inflammatory it is going to have catabolic effects....
    The best fat burning out there is prolly Clen in my IMO, only cuz its a fat burner that has anabolic properties, so you wont loose as much muscle as you would on a regular cut

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    Quote Originally Posted by brewski053
    Yes T3 does aswell, but since Aspirin is an anti inflammatory it is going to have catabolic effects....
    The best fat burning out there is prolly Clen in my IMO, only cuz its a fat burner that has anabolic properties, so you wont loose as much muscle as you would on a regular cut
    too bad you cant use clen for 12 weeks straight So... is using ECA in the off weeks 3 times per day detrimental to my muscle or does it not really make that much of a difference if your taking in almost 400g of protein?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxsirhcxx
    catabolic to muscle? but im a girl.i dont have much muscle...i just wanna burn fat, thats all.


    hit the cardio hard everyday... you'll lose it

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    Quote Originally Posted by gino_slayer
    too bad you cant use clen for 12 weeks straight So... is using ECA in the off weeks 3 times per day detrimental to my muscle or does it not really make that much of a difference if your taking in almost 400g of protein?
    wow u took 3x a day....The most i ever did was 2x....And i highly dought you dieted with it and didnt loose any muscle, just cuz u eat a crazy amount of protein doesnt mean u wont have muscle break down

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewski053
    wow u took 3x a day....The most i ever did was 2x....And i highly dought you dieted with it and didnt loose any muscle, just cuz u eat a crazy amount of protein doesnt mean u wont have muscle break down
    i dieted and was getting a little less than 380g of protein... i was also juiced up so i HIGHLY doubt i lost any muscle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider
    hit the cardio hard everyday... you'll lose it
    hey its me the girl asking the question. i made my own account. i've tried hitting the gym and i've tried a no carb diet, but i can't seem to lose the excess fat that i have. my boyfriend and i have been researching on a lot of stuff and he feels that i shouldn't take clen , but take ephedra.

  21. #21
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    well... clen has less side effects and many believe its more effective at burning fat than ECA. Its also shown to preserving muscle but you said you dont really care about that. The thing with Clen is that it must be taken 2 weeks on 2 weeks off so you dont block up your receptor sites completely, so optimaly you might want to take clen and in your off weeks do your Ephedra. Just my opinion

    good luck

  22. #22
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    Question

    is there a big difference between ephedra and ephedrine? or are they the same thing?

  23. #23
    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    Basically the same. Ephedra will have to come through a source since it was banned. Ephedrine (HCL) is legal. And a lot of people liked the HCL better than regular Ephedra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gino_slayer
    . The thing with Clen is that it must be taken 2 weeks on 2 weeks off so you dont block up your receptor sites completely, so optimaly you might want to take clen and in your off weeks do your Ephedra. Just my opinion

    good luck
    That won't work.

    Clen and ephedra both stimulate the Beta-2 receptor. If you take Ephedra on your off weeks, your receptors will never recover. Just take Benadryl (50mgs) before bedtime and it'll "unblock" your receptors.

  25. #25
    netsirk's Avatar
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    WHAT? oh man... im so confused!

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    Take some Ephedrine (20mgs).
    Take some Caffeine (200mgs).
    Do this a few (3)times a day.

    When the effects start to go away (you feel less stimulated), take 50mgs of Benadryl before you go to bed, each night for a week.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    That won't work.

    Clen and ephedra both stimulate the Beta-2 receptor. If you take Ephedra on your off weeks, your receptors will never recover. Just take Benadryl (50mgs) before bedtime and it'll "unblock" your receptors.
    How come EVERYWHARE i have EVER read says do ephedra in the off weeks and wont affect the recepotor sites? not saying your wrong just want to know whare you got it contradicting everyone

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    That won't work.

    Clen and ephedra both stimulate the Beta-2 receptor. If you take Ephedra on your off weeks, your receptors will never recover. Just take Benadryl (50mgs) before bedtime and it'll "unblock" your receptors.
    WHOA!! Hold on I've NEVER heard that before. All I've read is that consistent use of clen causes beta 2 receptor downregulation.

  29. #29
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    isnt benadryl an antihistamine (h1 receptor blocker), and wouldn't you need to use a beta blocker to do what you said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackman
    How come EVERYWHARE i have EVER read says do ephedra in the off weeks and wont affect the recepotor sites? not saying your wrong just want to know whare you got it contradicting everyone
    The short answer is that everywhere you have ever read is wrong.

    Here's the long answer:

    We all know that Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist (because it works on the beta-2-andrenergic-receptors), right? The thing is, Clenbuterol is selective...like hitting a tack (the tack being your beta-2 receptors)with a small hammer (the hammer being the Clen )...it hits the beta-2 receptors selectively.

    Ephedrine is like a sledge-hammer, it hits the beta-2's and everything around them. Thats because it's not selective, but rather it stimulates other receptors to a great degree as well.

    Anyway, one of those receptors that ephedrine hits is the Beta-2 (yeah...the same one as Clen). As you can see from the graph (ephedrine is the solid circles), it reduced Beta-2-AndrenergicReceptor (what we call, in laymens terms, the "Beta-2 receptor") levels to 32% of the control level after 24 hours. Read this again:

    Ephedrine, in this study, reduces Beta-2 receptor levels to 32% of control after 24 hours.

    (see the solid circles in this graph represent ephedrine)



    Reference:

    ASPET Journals, Vol. 58, Issue 2, 421-430, August 2000

    Kinetic Analysis of Agonist-Induced Down-Regulation of the 2-Adrenergic Receptor in BEAS-2B Cells Reveals High- and Low-Affinity Components
    Bruce R. Williams, Roger Barber, and Richard B. Clark

    Department of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology, The University of Texas Medical School, Houston, Texas


    Granted, it's not perfect, it's not in vivo, etc...but there's no denying that ephedrine will downregulate beta-2 receptors....ergo you will not be able to use it on the weeks inbetween your clen to upgrade your receptors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abmyers
    isnt benadryl an antihistamine (h1 receptor blocker), and wouldn't you need to use a beta blocker to do what you said?
    You guys are really making me earn my mod spot tonight, huh?

    Here it goes:

    Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

    Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

    Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

    Reference:

    Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
    Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
    Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J

    (This was a long-time theory of mine, which Nandi helped me out with...he directed me to the study above, after I harassed him with some PM's...until he felt sorry for me...)

  32. #32
    Latin's Avatar
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    Nice info there bro!!

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    Bro Hooker, so let us say I take the Benadryll, you recommended before sleep. Then I can take Clen for 6 weeks straight, without clen loosing its effect? Or am I reading you wrong?

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    RockSolid:

    Yeah..you can take Clen for 6 weeks straight, and it won't lose it's effect, if you take Benadryl before bed every 3rd week or so. You're reading me right....

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    Jackman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    RockSolid:

    Yeah..you can take Clen for 6 weeks straight, and it won't lose it's effect, if you take Benadryl before bed every 3rd week or so. You're reading me right....
    wow bro thanks for the info that will really change the way i take clen next time! seems it will work much better not doing the 2 week on 2 week off thing! well you earned the mod spot in my eyes for this

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    Thanks, Jackman...my brain is on fire now...I need to go to sleep...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    RockSolid:

    Yeah..you can take Clen for 6 weeks straight, and it won't lose it's effect, if you take Benadryl before bed every 3rd week or so. You're reading me right....
    Word. Very good information, I always was told Clen looses its effect after a certain while, so it is best, cycled 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off with ECA.

    This is great news for me. Thanks.

  38. #38
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    wow you guys stole my thread. and i have yet to understand anything!
    someone HELP me! i just wanna lose weight and i was wondering what was better ECA or HCL? aspirin or green tea extract? and now your saying benadryl???? AHHHHHH! im only a chick. i don't understand!

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    This is all you need:

    Take some Ephedrine (20mgs).
    Take some Caffeine (200mgs).
    Do this a few (3)times a day.

    When the effects start to go away (you feel less stimulated), take 50mgs of Benadryl before you go to bed, each night for a week.

    Thats it. Don't worry about the rest of the B.S. I posted...it's not important to you.

  40. #40
    Jackman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    This is all you need:

    Take some Ephedrine (20mgs).
    Take some Caffeine (200mgs).
    Do this a few (3)times a day.

    When the effects start to go away (you feel less stimulated), take 50mgs of Benadryl before you go to bed, each night for a week.

    Thats it. Don't worry about the rest of the B.S. I posted...it's not important to you.
    Least hes straight forward

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