Results 1 to 40 of 40
Thread: Nolva throughout or not.........
-
10-28-2004, 12:21 AM #1Associate Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Location
- Brisbane Australia
- Posts
- 191
Nolva throughout or not.........
I am doing a 10 week cycle of test e/prop/deca should I run nolva the whole way through?
Pct is clomid week 12-15
What are the advantages and if there are, what are the disadvantages?
Thanks for ya help
-
10-28-2004, 12:30 AM #2
Yes you should it will help your lipidprofile and also it will help prevent gyno/bloat
-
10-28-2004, 12:42 AM #3
it will not prevent the gyno from deca , you need b6 or bromocryptine. AND, i dont run nolva all the way through, only if i start seeing signs
-
10-28-2004, 12:45 AM #4AnabolicAlien Guest
no no no...
don't use it all the way through unless you know you're prone to gyno. it hinders gains, costs money, and can be totally unnecessary. if you're not prone to gyno or not sure; i wouldn't take it unless your nipples start getting sensitive or other signs of gyno appear.
some will tell you otherwise but i think this is the best way to go about it.
A.A.
-
10-28-2004, 01:27 AM #5Associate Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Location
- Brisbane Australia
- Posts
- 191
Good to hear bros! I can now say that this is the advice that my doctor gave me as well He thinks week 4-8 can be good just to keep things under control if I feel the need!
Any other coments welcome..................
-
10-28-2004, 01:42 AM #6AnabolicAlien Guest
wait...
wait a second... what advice did your doctor give you? just 4-8 weeks cycle? be specific.
i still don't think you're getting it.
A.A.
-
10-28-2004, 06:26 PM #7Associate Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Location
- Brisbane Australia
- Posts
- 191
No my cycle looks like this:
1-10 Test E E3.5D
1-10 Deca E3.5D
1-4 Prop EOD
4-8 Nolva if needed just level things out....
Make sence? Im not going to use it at all during if I dont feel as if there is a need!
Noddy
-
10-29-2004, 07:50 AM #8Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
Originally Posted by AnabolicAlien
Agreed.
You'll hold a tad more water, BFD, your muscle will appear that much fuller.
Plus you'll make greater gains.
However you must use nolv's as part of pct.
-
10-29-2004, 08:20 AM #9VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
BULL****! nolva does not hinder gains! well if negitive lipids, high bp, water retension and gyno are "gains".
-
10-29-2004, 08:52 AM #10Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
Originally Posted by big k.l.g
estrogen is instrumental in converting test.
ever wonder why sweet nothing happens when stacking methyl test and anti'es?
refer to your biochemistry manual, they will describe it in further detail.
-
10-29-2004, 09:00 AM #11Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 1,733
The possible mechanism by which nolva may hinder gains is that it may reduce IGF levels.
-
10-29-2004, 09:01 AM #12New Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- Posts
- 45
Originally Posted by big k.l.g
the benefit to lipid profile alone is worth running it, its dirt cheap, nukes aromataze gyno, keeps you from bloating like a god**** land whale....
-
10-29-2004, 09:05 AM #13New Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- Posts
- 45
Originally Posted by Pork Chop
on the other hand an anti-e like arimidex kills estrogen aromatization almost entirely even at low doses.
hey im here to learn like everyone else, maybe i have my research confused?
-
10-29-2004, 09:17 AM #14VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Originally Posted by Pork Chop
-
10-29-2004, 09:22 AM #15New Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Posts
- 8
that's right
Originally Posted by psb
-
10-29-2004, 09:32 AM #16Banned
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 2,584
Originally Posted by psb
Nolva all the way baby!!! Even if it does reduce IGF slightly, I would rather that than have high cholesteral, bloat and potential tits.
-
10-29-2004, 09:34 AM #17VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Bump for debate with pork chop.
-
10-29-2004, 09:35 AM #18Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
Originally Posted by big k.l.g
My argument was anti-e's hinder cycle gains.. and that reducing or eliminating estrogen in the body is counter productive compared to a balance in both estro and test.
I only have these pics, not recent nor clear.
Around 220lbs. Note the excessive bloat and gyno.
I think my arms in pic 1 is bigger than my head (all water though).
-
10-29-2004, 09:35 AM #19VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Originally Posted by toolman
-
10-29-2004, 09:37 AM #20Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
Originally Posted by big k.l.g
-
10-29-2004, 09:40 AM #21Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
Originally Posted by toolman
Excellent work on cut and pasting what other people think.
-
10-29-2004, 09:41 AM #22VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Estrogen is my mortal enemy! the less the better!! oh Pork chop? i'm not haten' on you bro i just strongly disaggree with ya on this issue.
-
10-29-2004, 09:46 AM #23Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
No prob man.
We can agree to disagree.
-
10-29-2004, 09:52 AM #24VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
K cool bro but toolman is gonna own your ass with some studies and common knowledge nolva is best run on cycle why close the barn door when the gyno horse done ran out? never made sense to me...think even if nolva did hinder gains hi BP, more bodyfat, bad cholestrol profile, weak tendons for 5 lbs muscle?
-
10-29-2004, 10:17 AM #25
im gonna have to side with B.I.G
-
10-29-2004, 10:21 AM #26Banned
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 2,584
[QUOTE=Pork Chop]My argument did NOT support excessive estrogen.
My argument was anti-e's hinder cycle gains.. and that reducing or eliminating estrogen in the body is counter productive compared to a balance in both estro and test.
I only have these pics, not recent nor clear.
Around 220lbs. Note the excessive bloat and gyno.
I think my arms in pic 1 is bigger than my head QUOTE]
PorkChop, I don't want to get in a flaming battle, but your reply to given facts is always "Give facts" Then when I do, like "test converts to estrogen" your reply is "You lose credibility because it doesn't" You were then corrected by everyone in the thread...it does. My point is, you have alot to learn and I will now explain some more "Facts" for you.
While called an anti-e, Nolva is actually synthetic estrogen and does not reduce estrogen in your body as you state above. It competes with binding sites against the estrogen created in your body by converting test to estrogen. THis is what happens on high dose cycles and why you get a higher risk of test conversion on high dose cycles.
If you read all the pro's on this subject, including the works of Mick Hart, who no one can challenge on experience or knowledge, there is no proof that Nolva hinders gains while plenty of studies that show it improves lipid profiles, prevents bloat and prevents gyno which is easier to prevent than treat. Saying nolva hinders gains is just gym BS which seems to contaminate alot of your knowledge.
I am not trying to be insulting bro and your pics show you workout and have some nice size (though you should photoshop your face for anonymity), but they also show alot of bloat that most of us would not want. I am not being critical, I just want you to clear your mind of the crap guys have been telling you and read up with an open mind. As Im near 40, cholesteral, BP, etc. is much more important now to me then it was when I was your age. Overall health is far more important to most of us on cycle. Gains come second, and that is if they even inhibited gains whcih they do not, you should run nolva on test cycles.Last edited by toolman; 10-29-2004 at 10:25 AM.
-
10-29-2004, 11:57 AM #27Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Posts
- 594
[QUOTE=toolman]
Originally Posted by Pork Chop
This post is a good start.
As for my posts record, yeah i've asked interesting questions along the way - it's called learning. You seem to know everything there is to know about working out and juice, why i'm curious as to why this board even exists, perhaps we could create a "ask toolman" forum to have all your questions asnwered and you can flex your biomechanics and biochemistry phd.
I'm not looking to get my arse owned by anyone, i'm measuring my knowlodge to other members, and if it doesn't stack up, i don't call him a retard, i try to understand it and learn from it.
As for health, if it paramount to you, you'd never lay a finger on this stuff.
As for pros, if you know anyone who makes a living at this sport, you'll know they don't carry anti-e's in the medicine cabinet.
Good info here in this thread though.
-
10-29-2004, 12:21 PM #28Banned
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 2,584
Originally Posted by Pork Chop
Also if you note in the multiple threads where we disagree, everyone posts after me that they agree with me and your advice is way off.
You didn't know Nolva is an estrogen and does not stop conversion. You didn't know Test converts to estrogen, you recommend ridiculous amounts of gear that even my high dose friends don't recommend, You say to run tren for an insane amount of time...the list goes on. You have alot to learn kid so read up and listen. Or keep posting your lack of knowledge and we will corect you on here. But remember what Sheakspear said " Tis better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to ope thy lips and remove all doubt."
-
10-29-2004, 01:08 PM #29Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 1,733
Nolvadex is a Serm (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator); SERMs are unique because they bind to estrogen receptors and have tissue-specific effects that allow them to function as estrogen agonists in some tissues, while functioning as estrogen antagonists in others. Nolvadex has an estrogen antagonist effect on breast tissue, yet an estrogen-like effect on lipids. Thats why it binds to breast tissue and helps prevent gyno by "clogging the receptor" with a weaker estrogen, yet it also improves lipid profiles. It will not cause less gains due to (some kind of issue with) less overall estrogen in the body, I think.
(South Med J. 2003 May;96(5):469-76.)
Unfortunately, the GH/IGF-1 axis also plays a role in Breast Cancer (which is what Nolvadex is used for clinically).
(Trends Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;14(1):28-34.)
Administration of Nolvadex to breast cancer patients has increased their survival rate, but unfortunately (for us)that's partly because of statistically significant (P = .002) reduction in the serum level of IGF-I. Yeah...Nolvadex may lower your serum IGF-1.
(J Natl Cancer Inst. 1990 Nov 7;82(21):1693-7.)
Nolvadex may also lower your GH levels by acting directly at the pituitary.
(Eur J Cancer. 1992;28A(4-5):788-93)
As we all know, IGF-1 and GH both play an important role in the accumulation of Muscle (fat-free mass) as well as strength.
(Ann Hum Biol. 1999 Jan-Feb;26(1):63-78)
If we want to speculate that Nolvadex may hinder your gains in Fat-Free mass or Strength, it would most likely be by it's ability to lower GH and IGF levels in the body.
-
10-29-2004, 01:32 PM #30VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Thanks for the post hooker. Pork Chop look bro i'm not going to hop on the hate pork chop bandwangon but you need to learn ALOT more before you start posting advice.....i researched for like 1-1/2 or 2 years before posting advice and i'm still learning now. It's not the your posts are "different" they just way off base sometimes peace out bro.
-
10-29-2004, 02:04 PM #31Banned
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 2,584
Originally Posted by big k.l.g
-
10-29-2004, 02:32 PM #32Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 1,733
Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood:
I'm not saying that Nolvadex hinders gains. I'm saying that IF it does, it's probably via an IGF/GH related mechanism.
I've run Nolvadex for an entire cycle, and the gains were similar to when I ran a cycle without it.
-
10-30-2004, 04:05 AM #33
And also in the words of Mick Hart on this subjuect, If Nolvedex hindered gains at all it would be minimal at best...probably less than 10 percent.
Now, given the choice to take it and maybe hinder gains 10 percent(if at all) but receive the benefits vs. not take it and take the extra risk for 2 or 3 extra pounds...well...I think the answer is obvious!
To those who take Nolvadex thru cycle - I say, "Nice Gains!"
..........and for those who don't..........I say, "Nice TITS!!!!!"
-
10-30-2004, 09:42 AM #34VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Originally Posted by pitbull27
-
10-30-2004, 10:19 AM #35Banned
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Posts
- 55
10 mg's EOD would be sufficient if your running some dbol or some other highly androgenic drug and your not prone to gyno. anything more than that, and your supressing IGF/HGH levels, and also hindering gains. besides, i could care less about the bloat, that is the first thing to leave your body once your cycle is over, i would rather have the bloat and maxamize my gains thant to get rid of the bloat durring cycle and minimize my gains by going overboard on the anti-e's.
-
10-30-2004, 10:26 AM #36
if nolva stops me from looking like pork chop then im continuing it....lol
-
10-30-2004, 11:59 AM #37VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Location
- barbados
- Posts
- 6,251
Originally Posted by tdawg
-
10-31-2004, 05:33 PM #38New Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Posts
- 20
Originally Posted by tdawg
-
10-31-2004, 06:21 PM #39
hahaahahahahaha that was funnnnnyyyy
-
11-03-2004, 08:50 PM #40Banned
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 2,584
Originally Posted by tdawg
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
SVT and steroids?
Yesterday, 09:28 PM in ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS