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  1. #1
    IronReload04's Avatar
    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    hpta for a 20 year old?

    I have a question for all the hard training bros who use gear. How many of u started when you were 20? any regrets?

    for the majority of 20 year olds, is the hpta ready for gear at 20.

    currenty, i am 18, but would rather start at 20 than 21. i have the base to start now, but wont for hpta reasons.

    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Demon Deacon's Avatar
    Demon Deacon is offline Anabolic Member
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    I started when i was 19. I regret it. I almost regret ever going on gear. But i have crossed into that path and there is no looking back. Yes my sex drive is suffering because i used deca at 19 and it is still suffering hopefully one day it will be back completely.

  3. #3
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Started @ 20, would have been better to start above 23.

  4. #4
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    started at 19, wait if your not 100% ur not ready

  5. #5
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    I started at 18, if I kne wwhat I knew now I def. would have waited until I was atleast 21. But, those were the choices I made and I'm lucky that I haven't had anything but some nut shrinkage and a few bad sexual experiences

  6. #6
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    well i am 20 and i am seriously considering taking AAS myself. but like you fellas said out there on the regrets i will probably start by 21

  7. #7
    IronReload04's Avatar
    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    thanks guys, i really appreciate the replies. waiting 2 years instead of 3 just makes the light at the end of the tunnel seem closer. i am sorry i waited so long to reply.

  8. #8
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    thanks guys, i really appreciate the replies. waiting 2 years instead of 3 just makes the light at the end of the tunnel seem closer. i am sorry i waited so long to reply.

  9. #9
    Jackman's Avatar
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    started at 19 and currently 20. no regrets as of YET..... but my sex drive is right up and never had any problems.

  10. #10
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    Started at 19. I'm 26. No regrets.

  11. #11
    tycin's Avatar
    tycin is offline Anabolic Member
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    i started at 19, im 23 now. no regrets so far...

  12. #12
    cb25's Avatar
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    Started at 21...haven't since then. I'll wait for quite a few years before i consider myself ready.

    Hindsight tells me i should've waited for awhile...but i'm not suffering any terrible side effects...i just think i would've been better suited had i waited.

  13. #13
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04
    I have a question for all the hard training bros who use gear. How many of u started when you were 20? any regrets?

    for the majority of 20 year olds, is the hpta ready for gear at 20.

    currenty, i am 18, but would rather start at 20 than 21. i have the base to start now, but wont for hpta reasons.

    thanks in advance
    Well there are a few things you need to understand before you go into it. This doesnt happen to everyone but a great majority of young juicers permanently have lower sex drives, even from just 1 cycle. It permanently lowers your testosterone production at a time when you should be making more then you ever will again in your life. Older guys who already are experiencing natural aging effects that decrease testosterone levels have less to loose then your 20 something, but you could come out of this cycle for years with the natural testsoterone production of a 41 year old man.

    This means gains are short lived. A guaranteed truth of steroids is your gains are ALWAYS lost within a year when you quit your cycle, however your ability to make gains naturally is permanently hindered. As your natural production declines, your ability to keep gains declines, in fact in future cycles 1/2 and eventually 3/4 of what you gain in next cycles is just to recover what you rapidly lost after ending your first cycle. At your age you should really think about it, messing with your hormones at this age can leave them messed up for the rest of your life, is it work it just to look good for 4 months now?

    I have to repeat this, but regardless about what any chart suggests, NO GAINS are keepable without staying on steroids. What is implied by the charts is which one looses gains the fastest and which ones loose it slower. Also some like deca have good keepable gains but how does it do this?? Deca actually marbles fat within your muscle making them look bigger and they are slower to shrink after cycle because fat is so hard to get rid of.

  14. #14
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    Holy Shyt you are the man!!!! great post bro!!!

  15. #15
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntpadude
    Well there are a few things you need to understand before you go into it. This doesnt happen to everyone but a great majority of young juicers permanently have lower sex drives, even from just 1 cycle. It permanently lowers your testosterone production at a time when you should be making more then you ever will again in your life. Older guys who already are experiencing natural aging effects that decrease testosterone levels have less to loose then your 20 something, but you could come out of this cycle for years with the natural testsoterone production of a 41 year old man.

    This means gains are short lived. A guaranteed truth of steroids is your gains are ALWAYS lost within a year when you quit your cycle, however your ability to make gains naturally is permanently hindered. As your natural production declines, your ability to keep gains declines, in fact in future cycles 1/2 and eventually 3/4 of what you gain in next cycles is just to recover what you rapidly lost after ending your first cycle. At your age you should really think about it, messing with your hormones at this age can leave them messed up for the rest of your life, is it work it just to look good for 4 months now?

    I have to repeat this, but regardless about what any chart suggests, NO GAINS are keepable without staying on steroids. What is implied by the charts is which one looses gains the fastest and which ones loose it slower. Also some like deca have good keepable gains but how does it do this?? Deca actually marbles fat within your muscle making them look bigger and they are slower to shrink after cycle because fat is so hard to get rid of.

    Not trying to be a prick or an a hole or anything, but i found this on a thread on this site

    But it is important to note that these effects are reversible with discontinuance of the steroids (Haupt and Rovere, 1984, p. 481), and that no case of permanent sterility as a result of prolonged high-dose steroid consumption has ever been reliably documented (Yesalis and Cowart, 1998, p. 53).


    This is to me is saying that a healthy ADULT male's test production will always bounce back after the drugs are stopped.

    are you saying that YOUNG juicers only, are at risk for having test production permenantly lowered? if the answer is yes, than if a 19 yearold is physicall matured enough, he can use, but a 21 year old who is not mature enough should not use, is this the point you were trying to make?
    Last edited by IronReload04; 11-01-2004 at 06:43 PM.

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    You are correct, in that normally HPTA suppression is reversable.

    But what you have done here is juxtapose sperm count (sterility and fertility) with testosterone production.

    The authors of the article said:


    "no case of permanent sterility... "

    So you decided that:

    "test production will always bounce back..."


    However, men with abnormally low sperm count (which is what the quote you have is talking about) can still have normal testosterone levels , and men with low sperm counts can have high testosterone levels.

    Your argument is invalid....

  17. #17
    AnabolicAlien Guest

    ??

    ??

    your hpta axis isn't the reason not to juice at a young age... you need to read up more on this. i don't want to take an hour to explain it.

    A.A.

  18. #18
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicAlien
    ??

    your hpta axis isn't the reason not to juice at a young age... you need to read up more on this. i don't want to take an hour to explain it.

    A.A.
    That is exactly what i am trying to do now, just learn, so down the road, i will be ready. Not lookin to jump into this. I began, i cant say balls out researching, but putting in effort and studying this site for about a year now.

    Honostly though, i will be honost, i thought hpta was the biggest reason not to juice at an age like mine?

  19. #19
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04
    Not trying to be a prick or an a hole or anything, but i found this on a thread on this site

    But it is important to note that these effects are reversible with discontinuance of the steroids (Haupt and Rovere, 1984, p. 481), and that no case of permanent sterility as a result of prolonged high-dose steroid consumption has ever been reliably documented (Yesalis and Cowart, 1998, p. 53).


    This is to me is saying that a healthy ADULT male's test production will always bounce back after the drugs are stopped.

    are you saying that YOUNG juicers only, are at risk for having test production permenantly lowered? if the answer is yes, than if a 19 yearold is physicall matured enough, he can use, but a 21 year old who is not mature enough should not use, is this the point you were trying to make?
    No you do get a bounce back but at the age of 20/21, you should be at your maximum testosterone production of your life. It is very very hard for your body to maintain these high levels, this is why by the age of 25, your testosterone production declines nearly 30%. Usually testosterone production is a one way trip, declining is the only way it goes as you get older, when you cycle, it doesnt come back all the way to where it was before, any cycler of any age will tell you that. So cycling advances the clock on this life long decline of testosterone production that normally starts at about the age of 22 years. Depending on the substance, things like deca , tren , eq, winstrol , etc are the ones most likely to leave you with permanently lowered testosterone production. Taking just teststosterone tends to be the least damaging.

  20. #20
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    wow, those are some hard words to swallow, but thank you for the info.

  21. #21
    IronReload04's Avatar
    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    You are correct, in that normally HPTA suppression is reversable.

    But what you have done here is juxtapose sperm count (sterility and fertility) with testosterone production.

    The authors of the article said:


    "no case of permanent sterility... "

    So you decided that:

    "test production will always bounce back..."


    However, men with abnormally low sperm count (which is what the quote you have is talking about) can still have normal testosterone levels , and men with low sperm counts can have high testosterone levels.

    Your argument is invalid....
    thanks for pointing that out man.

  22. #22
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Anavar my friends........Anavar

  23. #23
    IronReload04's Avatar
    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    i was not asking about var, i was talking about the impact of test on a male from the ages of 19-23

  24. #24
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    You'll be shut down and you will also recover. INjecting Test will shut you down, even 100mgs.

  25. #25
    ColdSore's Avatar
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    started at 20...turned 21 soon after though....

    i dont regret it...i lost over 100lbs before i started so i lost alot of muscle with it too and i was used to being a huge football player and powerlifter so i was basically depressed until i started AAS and got my strength and physique back....so i would say it helped me more than hurt me

  26. #26
    IronReload04's Avatar
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    any one else have any regrets or no regrets for aas use at the age of around 20?

  27. #27
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReload04
    wow, those are some hard words to swallow, but thank you for the info.
    I'd like to say as well, I am not telling you not to take steroids , I just thought someone should present the harsh realities so you can weigh this in with your decision.

    If you decide to do steroids, the only way to keep what they give you is to stay on them doing numerous cycles for the rest of your life or as long as you want to look muscular. When you give them up, you return to your previous toothpick status, find it very difficult to regain what you had during steroids so you either stay on steroids forever or really loose face in the whole weight lifting gain, get old and get fat. A lot of guys on here prefer to see guys a litttle bit older then you start steroids, instead of being so young because, we all been 20 ourselves and made horrible decisions we regret later in life. Its better to make that choice with a more mature head.

    We've even seen a lot of 20 year old kids, last summer we had one that started at 170 pounds, went on steroids, gained up 20 pounds, when he hit PCT, he was loosing 4 pounds a day and just 30 days of PCT he was down to 150 pounds!! He not only lost everything but lost more then he started with!! This believe it or not is very common and happens to 1/2 the kids because they also did deca and deca devistated their abilility to recover their testosterone production, so this kid from last summer ruined the prime of his life and left the cycle with no sex drive, cant get hard, and testosterone production of a 41 year old when he was in much better shape before the cycle at his age of 20.

  28. #28
    IronReload04's Avatar
    IronReload04 is offline "Rancid Protein Powder Mastermind Technician"
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    first of all, i would never take deca first cycle and probably never will since it is so harsh. Second, currently i am cutting, i am 208 at 16%bf, and 5'9., 2 years from now, i will probably be 20 pounds heavier than i am now at 10%f, at least that is my goal, to get their naturally.

    i have read many posts about bros keepin their gains. saying that if pct and diet and exercise is money, they keep their gains.

  29. #29
    Tose22's Avatar
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    i am 22 and have been using aas since the age of 18, my metabolism and my sex drive has never suffered, only a few mishaps in the bed where i had to call it quits, that was with deca and tren and thats about it. Other than that no regrets!

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