At what age did u juice and if your under 20 PLZ REPLY!

**askingforit** · 03-13-2002, 09:04 PM

arthur, do you not believe in genetics? Maybe you can gain weight easily just training naturally and eating right. I've tried many different diets, and training routines in the few years I've attempted to gain weight, all to no avail. I always hit this same plateau that I am in now, my lifts increase, but my weight does not. It's not like a want to be some huge BB'er or anything, but not getting called "little guy" by the ladies would be nice. AS will help me get there.

**arthurb999** · 03-13-2002, 09:09 PM

I believe. Once you reach your genetic potential, sure juice away; however, most people will not reach their potential at 18.

**askingforit** · 03-13-2002, 09:10 PM

agreed.

**Dizzy** · 03-13-2002, 09:12 PM

The side effects are the same. But on different bodies. Do you think that a 15-20 would have the same reaction as far as acne goes as a 25-30 year old? Do you think the skeletal structure of a 15-20 year old can handle the rapid increase in muscle mass as a 25-30 year old. The liver is the only thing I can think of that older people should worry most about and younger people have the advantage. Do you really want to have to use rogain so your not bald at 15-20 years old? Come on sk*.

**foreverblast1** · 03-13-2002, 09:52 PM

what is your natural potential anyways? what's this crap about reaching it? how will u know if you reached it? maybe it's just a plateau that takes 10 more years to get past? STEROIDS ARE USED TO REACH GENETIC POTENTIAL IN A HURRY AND PUSH PAST IT!!

john

**arthurb999** · 03-13-2002, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by foreverblast1
what is your natural potential anyways? what's this crap about reaching it? how will u know if you reached it? maybe it's just a plateau that takes 10 more years to get past? STEROIDS ARE USED TO REACH GENETIC POTENTIAL IN A HURRY AND PUSH PAST IT!!

john

**eradikate** · 03-13-2002, 10:21 PM

yea but if a kid is willing to take only one cycle and datz it, is that too bad?? he won't lose too much hair and look like a pizza face. there are many kids who juiced my age (19) and they didn't see too much side effects and got huge!

**tackle78** · 03-13-2002, 10:25 PM

People are starting to say on this post 15 well there is a huge difference between a 15 year old and a man. between 15 and 18 most guys go through the most personality and mental change. Saying 15 and 20 in the same sentence to me is just like saying 2 and 9.

**arthurb999** · 03-13-2002, 11:09 PM

Why take something and expose yourself to risks to achieve something you could without? Have some patience.

**Dizzy** · 03-13-2002, 11:41 PM

originally posted by sk*
An 18 year old can possibly handle it better since he is younger. Just an opinion though, opinions don't mean anything but you are asking me for my opinions

Of course I'm asking your opinion. And it does mean something. Otherwise I wouldn't take the time to have a civil argument with you. Which you do well.

originally posted by sk*
but I want it now to feel better now not later

It's too late but I think ya should have waited just two or three more years. Impatience is rather childish. But I love ya man. Don't get mad.

originally posted by sk*
genetic pottential is only a myth

Of course it is when you tell a kid that steriods will make you big and strong.

**Terinox** · 03-13-2002, 11:49 PM

Guys guys, it all depends. I mean, overall, it's obvious that if a teen is gonna do it, then they are gonna do it. But look at me, like I said before, i'm already losing my hair (genetics), i've worked for quite some time, i'm very dedicated, i've researched steroids for 6+ months now.

Juicing for me is innevitable. I will juice in the future, this is a 100% thing with me, it's imbedded into my mind. However, although I believe both physically and mentally I am ready and can handle juice, I AM STILL waiting, and gonna try and wait as long as possible. It all comes down to the individual. I've done all the growing i'm gonna do, but taht doesn't mean my friends have. So they shouldn't juice. You can't compare yourself to other 19 year olds, or even 25-30 year olds. Everyone is different!!!

Just research, and LISTEN to your body. You will know when your ready. BUT, if you want to juice just to look good in highschool, and you want to show off in the weight room and to your friends of how tough you can be, THAT IS THE STUPIDEST REASON TO DO JUICE!

I know that I will be bodybuilding well well well into my adult life. This isn't just a hobby anymore, it's a part of my life, as i'm hoping it is for you guys as well. Now unless you plan to workout for a long time and unless you are very dedicated like so many members of this board, then AS is not for you!

**Dizzy** · 03-14-2002, 12:10 AM

One whole year! Wow, now I see your point. What's the point in waiting. I remember when I was 19 (damn I sound like a old man and I'm only 25) I thought 1 year was a long time too. You will find as you get older that a year goes by faster and faster each year. I wish it would slow down and you wish it would just hurry already. You want to trade bro?

**OT8268** · 03-14-2002, 12:20 AM

I am 19.5 just like terinox and when I came herre dead set on juicing I Heard the same shit, wait till your older try dieting more, work harder. And yeah I was pissed but you know what I did everything they said I slept more, cut back on drinking, ate better and trained harder, and I gained 10 solid pounds in about 2 months, hell that is as good as most cycles I have heard, I think what most people mean when they say wait is, you do not need to take this risk in your life yet, desirable results an be obtained with out it.

I read somone on this board once said "If you have to ask if you are ready, then you are not, you will know" I think if you second guess yourself at all about age then you have NOT trained to your MAX, dieted to your MAX, and just took care of yourself properly, if you feel fully confident when looking in the mirror and can say to yourself honestly"I have done everything I can to reach my goals" if you can do that and not lie to yourself then you and you alone are ready to take the plunge. I was not ready and I am glad that I came here first because I have already achieved most of my goals and I have a sound body and mind knowing that I am healthy

**Dizzy** · 03-14-2002, 12:25 AM

originally posted by sk*
Nope, I am not even 19 yet.

Oh thanks, now I really feel old.

Uh oh. I'm in the dog house tonight. I didn't rock her goodnight so she wants me on the couch tonight. And she is serious. So I hope your happy sk*.

Goodnight

**OT8268** · 03-14-2002, 12:29 AM

2 months, I mean I used supplementation, after the water from the creatine cleared I ended with a net of about 6 lbs with 4 other pounds coming from afterwards. But I am not saying you are an example, but I think lots of ppl do view it as a shortcut for hard work and determination, or even if they do work hard on it, they have not trained and given there body a chance to gains its full potential

**Mallet** · 03-14-2002, 01:46 AM

Do you think Arnie and the boy's waited till they were 21?...I think not...because at the age of 21 Arnold won his first pro Universe contest and 2 years later he won his first Mr "O"...that's not to say we should all start juicing at a younger age, BUT if you plan on going to the top at BB or another sport and be the best you can be then I see no reason to wait until your 21.

I didn't start juicing until I was 27 years old, I had trained naturally for 9 years...and I tell you honestly I wish I had of started sooner...After 9 years of training O natural I weighed 215lbs at 6'1" and could bench 300lbs...not bad you say for a natural...but after a couple of years of juicing I'm now 260lbs and bench that little 300lbs for several reps...So I often wonder where I would have been if I started earlier, maybe 400lbs would be easy to bench for reps today!

However I strongly agree that any sooner than 17 will be counter productive...you definately do not want to close your growth plates pre-maturely! Enough said...not taking sides JMO!

**OT8268** · 03-14-2002, 01:54 AM

what you say is true Mallet, but I guess it just goes with what your goals are. I do not want to be a pro BB, even at the age where it is not too late for me to decide I still know I would not want to be one, sure you are making a good amount of money (the top 10 maybe) but the side effects you have for life, have to out weigh that, I think 10 million dollars is not enough money to sacrifice a full long healthy life IMO, but true it does depend on your goals, and I dont think Professional boyd builders are the models to be following in regard to early steroid use , Arnold for instance is not in great shape right now with all his cycles

**Mallet** · 03-14-2002, 02:28 AM

Well said ot8268! I agree completely...the risk to reward is not worth it to me either...

I think the biggest problem we face today is self asteem in young people(i know i was there)You know when your a skinny kid and people make fun of you etc... or you see someone in a magazine and want to be just like that person, and we never fully realize what it took for them to get there...we just know we want to get there tomorrow...I see alot of people young and old alike taking AS just to look good on the beach..it's unfortunate that we have to compare ourselves to others rather than being grateful for our own uniqueness!

**OT8268** · 03-14-2002, 03:16 AM

I couldn't agree with you more about how obsessed we are about how we look. I am around 15 percent bf. not real lean, but I am play on the D line, but anyway I am constantly complaning to my girlfriend about my love handles, or my chest is not even etc. I probably sound like more of a girl then she does at times, and it is true people including myself are completely absorbed in appearance, but when I do say that to my girlfriend she just says to me... be glad that you are healthy at all, there are sick kids in hospitals that would love to be you for a day, minor imperfections and all, be glad for what you have, after she says that I feel real bad about being so self absorbed and it does put things into perspective

**Pete235** · 03-14-2002, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by Fif the Great
That's easy, Dizzy, I'm 19, and want to look good now, not when I am 30 and married with 3 kids. We're in our primes, and want to look our best, and AS can help us get to our best, that's not too unreasonable.... is it?

Why do you assume that you are in your prime at 19-20?? Could it be because you are now in that age bracket? If so, then that is all you know about, you have no idea what it's like to be 25 or 30 or 35. Guess what...I do know...and I've also been 19-20. So Fif, you arguement is mute because you can only comment from one standpoint. Sorry bro, no flame, but that standpoint really has no validity.

**Pete235** · 03-14-2002, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by sk*
That's a very good point. Age doesn't show muturity. You can have just one experience in your life that will entirely change the way you preceive life and put you on a higher intellectually (the word is debatable but bear with me) level than someone who is thirty years older than you.

Not sure that is such a valid point either sk*. Age and experience have ALOT to do with maturity. I will concede, however, that intelligence also plays a BIG roll. That's why some 30-40 year olds are immature and reckless....ignorance.

Age is definately a factor when it comes to being able to make rational decisions. Yes we send 19-20 year olds to war, but how many make the decisions that may shift the balance of the war? How many are Sgts, Lts, Majors, Colonels? How many people in their early teens are running Fortune 500 companies? How many are in high ranking management positions? How many are Congressmen, State Represenatives, members of the Senate or President? Just a thought.

BTW....great thread guys, very intelligent and articulate responses and no flames.

**Pete235** · 03-14-2002, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by sk*

Those arguments are really irrelevant because sgts, lts, and majors don't define how smart people are but i'll humor you. Yes teens don't become majors, but do you also realize that they are not given the opportunity? Society has put laws against such things and, therefore, those points can't be held to anything.

By U.S. law, you have to be 35 years old to become president, does it mean that I am stupid for being 18 and not the president of the United States? The job title does not show muturity and using age is really not applicable.

They are not irrelevant! And it sounds like the arguement you are making is that these positions of responsibilty are bestowed upon soldiers because of their age...when in actuality it is because of their experience. Intelligence, as I conceded earlier, is important but you couldn't promote an 18 year old soldier just because he scored off the charts on his SAT's and his IQ was massive. These laws were put in place not out of the blue because of social predjudice towards younger people, but because of years of behavioral study. It's not discriminatory to exclude a 24yr old genius from running for the Presidency of the US (or any other position of extreme responsibilty), it's prudent and logical. Maturity comes from a combination of experience and intelligence...and at 18 (or 20 or 25), the life experience is not yet there.

I already addressed your point about 40 year old losers who would rather drink and smoke and sit on the sofa. They lack intelligence or common sense or responsibilty or many other social skills that would make them mature. We are not using the term "maturity" in a literal sense (based soley on years..age).

**Pete235** · 03-14-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by sk*
but i'll humor you.

Please don't patronize me like that.

**Pete235** · 03-14-2002, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by sk*
I am sorry I didn't mean it in any bad way. It was only a joke. I, honestly, don't come here to pick a fight or argument with people. My beliefs are just usually different from that of most people and it causes problems at times.

No worries bro...thanks for clarifying. We're cool sk*

And for the record, I think you are EXTREMELY mature for your age (but I wasn't gonna reveal that assesment during our discussion

)

**Terinox** · 03-14-2002, 10:03 AM

Man this thread has become very interesting

I have a lot of respect for both sk* and Pete, who have both helped me out a lot in the past months

I see myself agreeing with both of you on this one. Pete has a very good point in terms of maturity and experience. Not so much maturity, but I personally think it's more experience that's the case here. I mean, someone who isn't mature, might still have enough experience to do whatever it is he's gonna do, juice, army, etc...

However, I also agree with sk* in terms of maturity, that it depends. Some are mature at 18, some are mature at 30, it all depends. But let me give you an example.

Last year spring, my uncle and his family moved to Canada from my country. They have three kids, 12/19/22. Now, when I first met the 12 year old, I was like, well, she's just a little kid, 12 years old. After about a month or two of meeting, interacting with this family (who i'd never met before except when i was a baby) I was shocked, really SHOCKED at how mature this 12 year old was. It was all about how she had been raised in my country before being exposed to another culture/country. The amount of respect, loyalty, attitude, etc...I thought I was talking to a 18 year old. I have cousins here who are 9-10 years old, and they act so immature it's not even funny. They really act like little kids (WELL THEY ARE LITTLE KIDS

.) But, the 12 year old, only 2 years older then the others, acts completely different!

I guess she's ready for juice!!!

Well you know what I mean though.

**Dizzy** · 03-14-2002, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by OT8268
be glad that you are healthy at all, there are sick kids in hospitals that would love to be you for a day

I just had a friend die from cancer. He spent problably a total of two or three years in the hospital. Not only would he have liked to trade with me for a day, but I would have traded for him for ever. Best guy in the world. Noone looks at it from this angle. People go through their young lives throwing caution to the wind. What about the poor kid who has to sit in the hospital for months upon months at a time. Getting stuck with needles just to drag out a certain death. Think about that my new young friends.

**Terinox** · 03-14-2002, 11:32 AM

Good point.

**Fif the Great** · 03-14-2002, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Dizzy
FiftheGreat- nineteen and in your prime? HA. So your saying it's just all downhill from there huh?

Pretty much, your natural test levels reach their peak at around 17 or 18. So yeah, all downhill from there.

**Fif the Great** · 03-14-2002, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Pete235

Why do you assume that you are in your prime at 19-20?? Could it be because you are now in that age bracket? If so, then that is all you know about, you have no idea what it's like to be 25 or 30 or 35. Guess what...I do know...and I've also been 19-20. So Fif, you arguement is mute because you can only comment from one standpoint. Sorry bro, no flame, but that standpoint really has no validity.

You're right. Irregardless of age, it's a personal choice. I'm 19, and I will begin a cycle when I turn 20. I haven't grown since I was 17, I'm basically the same height and weight now as I was then. I can get cut and gain mass with a proper cycle of AS, with proper training and diet. Why would I want to wait until I'm 25 to do this?? I don't want to be the size of Arnold or Ronnie Coleman or any other body builders. I'm not looking to compete or make a living off having the body of a Greek God. I just want to feel better about myself, by looking better in the mirror, in my own eyes. So as far as pushing to my so called "potential", I want to use AS to help me GET to my potential, not eclipse it. Maybe if that was the case, I'd wait... but it's not. I feel I am in my prime now. In 3 years I'll probably be married, and not married because of the way I look, but because of who I am. I'm not cycling to "get chicks", I'm doing to have a better self esteem and to have more confidence. That's not too much to ask...

**arthurb999** · 03-14-2002, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Fif the Great
Pretty much, your natural test levels reach their peak at around 17 or 18. So yeah, all downhill from there.

At 17 I had no idea what life was all about... shit I was in high school! I'd say on average, a man is in his prime at 24-25. I don't think being in your prime has anything to do with test levels. Shit... I'm 24 and I look my best, can fuck like a champ, can kick some ass, ..., way better than when I was 17!! Plus as you age you get educated, learn from your expereinces, etc...

Applied to bodybuilding, at 17 there is no way you know your body. It takes time to learn what works for you. At 17 I ate what my parents made and worked out pretty hard. I was in good shape... never mind if I ate the way I do now. I would've been huge.

The moral of this story, take advantage of your natural test levels now and train hard and eat. It worked for me at that age. You will thank yourself in the long run.

btw, "irregardless" isn't a word

**D00fy** · 03-14-2002, 01:16 PM

holy crap 2days 90replys WH0aaaaaaa

**D00fy** · 03-14-2002, 01:25 PM

holy crap this is gonna be a good read over the weekened

**McBain** · 03-14-2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by arthurb999

At 17 I had no idea what life was all about... shit I was in high school! I'd say on average, a man is in his prime at 24-25. I don't think being in your prime has anything to do with test levels. Shit... I'm 24 and I look my best, can fuck like a champ, can kick some ass, ..., way better than when I was 17!! Plus as you age you get educated, learn from your expereinces, etc...

Applied to bodybuilding, at 17 there is no way you know your body. It takes time to learn what works for you. At 17 I ate what my parents made and worked out pretty hard. I was in good shape... never mind if I ate the way I do now. I would've been huge.

The moral of this story, take advantage of your natural test levels now and train hard and eat. It worked for me at that age. You will thank yourself in the long run.

btw, "irregardless" isn't a word

Thoght I'd throw my hat into this debate

I agree, years 17-20 have been full of change for me. Mainly the first year after graduating high school is full of change imo. Right now I'm 20, 21 in a few months, so I don't know what future will bring, but in the last year changes have been a lot more minor. imo I am mature and frankly I like having dinner with 40 year olds and having intellectual conversations than going out to a frat party. Imo I am mature and responsible enough right now to do a cycle. I am still waiting because I want to acquire more knowledge and make sure everything goes perfectly but in terms of maturity I completely think I am there. Anyways I think it terms of maturity a good way to determine it is sort of like how you determine if you are still growing (height-wise). Look back on the changes you have made the last few years, if you have never gone through major changes then you haven't even started to mature. If you look back, have made some major changes and in the past year your personality, values, ethics and behavior have pretty much stayed the same (and before then you had gone through some big changes) then you are probably pretty mature. I think best thing anyone can do is just sit down with paper and pen and write out the pro's and con's to beginning their first cycle. Both pro's and con's are not known by anyone until they have done research and talked to experienced users. If someone has gone through these exercises and decide they still want to then I think that is ok. They aren't hurting anyone besides, potentially, themselves and if they have thought through this and they take responsibility for the possibility of negative side effects and realize this is a real possibility then I say let them do it.

**askingforit** · 03-14-2002, 03:40 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sk*
[B]

People don't understand that things like beer, weed, and things of the sort don't just affect your body but also your mind indirectly. Someone who smokes every weekend, most likely doesn't sit in a room and think about different things about life such as how it was created and other things of the like that I consider to measure muturity and intelligence.

SK*, I agree with the rest of your argument but this simply is not true. I spent a lot of years doing rec drugs, including alcohol, and I personally have always maintained my intellect at the same time. I'm certain that many on this board look at rec drugs in a bad light, as you seem too. But steroids are drugs too, and just as you can do steroids properly/safely, by researching and being smart about it, you can do rec drugs. It's simply personal preference. Don't assume that because someone does rec drugs that they are less intellectual, or do not think about things that any human does.

**Nico** · 03-14-2002, 04:15 PM

I started lifting when I was 14. When I was 17 , like an idiot I did dbol only cycle for 10weeks. Now I am much older and wiser.

**eradikate** · 03-14-2002, 05:04 PM

i smoke weed every weekend and i think im mature and a critical thinker. these days my family is in such bad situation financially, that i work extra 10 hours(35 hours a week) plus school, plus gym, and i provide my family with groceries and help pay for the rent, and bills. i earn about 1400 a month and i use about 300 bux of it. i give my brother his lunch money, and other stuff he needs. i would've never done this about 2 years ago when i was a little rascal and liked to cause trouble and rob people. now, i like to help out people who are impared, give care for those who need, and like to share plates with the hungry. just cuz someone smokes pot, (and yes i smoke about an eigth a week) doesn't mean i don't think about life and stuff. you can't judge a person on one thing they do. because i know a lotta mature good people that smoke pot for their personal enjoyment. Even alotta parents!!

**eradikate** · 03-14-2002, 05:08 PM

and remember im 19 years old

**IGF-1** · 03-14-2002, 07:00 PM

check out p.o box doofy

**askingforit** · 03-14-2002, 09:06 PM

"One thing I guarantee you, you would have been a completely different person if you never did any drugs or alcohol because they change your mind in one way or another. Do you see what I am saying? "

This is definitely a true statement SK*. I definitely understand where your coming from, it's cool because obviously you have spent a lot of time putting thought into your views on things, instead of just talkin out your *ss like many people do. I respect that a lot. I would be a completely different person right now if I had never used rec drugs, and I don't know if I'm happier this way or how I would have been, because I can't take those decisions back. Not that I would want too, I've gotten many great life experiences and memories from those days but that's over now. I'm choosing to do AS because I've always been unhappy with being so damn skinny. I could probably also go further naturally but I have researched a lot, and I know that AS will help me to my goal....in turn helping me to be happier with my body and happier overall. I think that you know what you're doing, you've done your homework, I don't see any reason why anybody could tell you that doing AS early was the wrong choice. That's for each individual to decide on their own. I hope you got everything out of it that you were looking for, and I hope I will too. Good chattin...

**McBain** · 03-16-2002, 03:03 AM

I completely agree about the rec drugs chaning one's life but for me and a couple of my close friends I'd done them with and discussed this very topic with, it has been for the better. Mainly I am speaking of weed and mushrooms. Only done mushrooms once and I smoked weed heavily for a while but both make you look at world from different perspectives that you wouldn't have seen without them. Also oxycontin did this for me but that was because I pretty much OD'd so that was moreso the close call with death than anything else. Scariest night of my life, I was so scared I thoght I was going to die and after a couple of hours shivering in my bed feeling sick to my stomach I just finally accepted the fact I was going to die. Stay the hell away from that shit.