First-cycle dosage question (spurred by BASK8KACE's low-dosage thread)

My planned cycle, first ever (besides one cycle of PH last winter) is so far planned like this:

Wks 1-4, 25mg dbol ED
1-10, 500mg test enanth /wk
1-10, 400mg EQ /wk
arimidex, nolva throughout
HCG, nolva, clomid PCT

I only have enough test to run 10wks at this dosage. I can run EQ a little longer.

People keep telling me, "you should run the test for 12wks and eq for 14" or similar things.

Would running a slightly lower dosage (say, 400mg test/wk or even 350) but at a longer duration be beneficial to me? Or should I stick w/ the above plan?

Please remember, this is my first-ever cycle. I'm currently 182lb, ~14%bf.

Stick with the above except go with 30mg Dbol /ED and drop the EQ unless you want to run it with test for 14-16 weeks, 10 isn't long enough for EQ.

I'm not sure that this is exactly a "low-dose" cycle. A low dose cycle is roughly 250-350mg Test a week. If this is your first cycle then I am going to go with everyone else one here and say that you should run a Test-only for your 1st time out. That way, if you have a bad reaction then you will know that it is from the test that you are using and not some other compound in your cycle (like EQ or dbol). Personally (I advocate low-doses) I would start w/ 250mg Test E per week for 13 weeks and if you wanted to run the EQ at like 150-200mg per week. Most everyone will tell you that you will not see ANYTHING from the EQ at that dose, but it is up to you. Just remember, if you can make good gaines on half the dose then why go high? Good luck.

Plus, if you only have enough for 500mg/wk for 10 weeks then I am assuming you have 2 10ml vials of Test E 250. Correct? You also have to factor in wasted gear in the syringes and overdrawing...so you probably have more like 91/2 weeks at 500mg/wk.

go with this:
1-4 dbols 30 ed
1-12 test 400 wk
1-12 eq 400 wk (if u read around ull find that for eq u can run same test dosage)
run test a wk longer than eq if u can so u can match test and eq with pct start, or stop them together and wait 21 days before pct-

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Originally Posted by bmwrob

I'm not sure that this is exactly a "low-dose" cycle..

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Yeah...but then again, its kinda relative. I'm on 800-900mgs/week right now. Thats low dose for me....because I have done 4-5x as much in my life.

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Originally Posted by 1-Cent

Stick with the above except go with 30mg Dbol /ED and drop the EQ unless you want to run it with test for 14-16 weeks, 10 isn't long enough for EQ.

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I agree with cent on upping the dbol, though you could taper off the last week. Maybe start out with 50mg/day the first two weeks and taper down to 25 by the end of week 4. By then your test is kicking in. As for the eq, can you get deca instead? Probably better for a 10 weeker than the eq.

That is a bear of a heavy cycle for your first one.

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Originally Posted by bmwrob

Plus, if you only have enough for 500mg/wk for 10 weeks then I am assuming you have 2 10ml vials of Test E 250. Correct? You also have to factor in wasted gear in the syringes and overdrawing...so you probably have more like 91/2 weeks at 500mg/wk.

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with vials, how do you feel about air-purging the wastage right back into the jug?

if your gonna run the EQ run test one week past the EQ. so PCT time will match up.

I would make sure you have some liver and kidney supplements also...

peace

db

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Originally Posted by MotoLifter

if your gonna run the EQ run test one week past the EQ. so PCT time will match up.

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What about front-loading?

Not sure what exactly you mean by matching the PCT. Can you please elaborate?

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Originally Posted by d.b

I would make sure you have some liver and kidney supplements also...

peace

db

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Check. :)

I'm kinda worried about the dbol dosage - my liver values have a tendancy to get high - I don't want to push my luck right out of the gate.

So you guys really think drop the eq if I'm not running it for at least what - 12wks? 14?

Just wondering bro, aren't you the one that was preaching about using
the Optimal Dose? 4x-5x 800-900mg per week is alot... I have ran as high
as 2,500mg total weekly and that was alot... Just curious if you compete
or are just are a size freak like 80%-90% of us that can't stop? Just tell
it like it is, no need for hard facts on this one...

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Originally Posted by hooker

Yeah...but then again, its kinda relative. I'm on 800-900mgs/week right now. Thats low dose for me....because I have done
4-5x as much in my life.

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What would be worse on the liver? A longer lower-dosed cycle or a shorter higher-dosed cycle? Assuming that the total test/eq was the same?

I have some extra eq. Maybe I'll front-load 600mg/wk for two weeks, then do 10 more weeks at ~350mg/wk. And drop my test enanth dosage to ~350mg/wk for 13wks. I'll still do the 25-30mg dbol for the first 4wks.

bump

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Originally Posted by buff87

Just wondering bro, aren't you the one that was preaching about using the Optimal Dose? ...

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I don't preach. You must have me confused with someone else.

However, how would I know my optimal dose unless I have done the entire spectrum of doses and compounds? I've done every cycle I could....from 200mgs/primo per week, up to 4,100mgs/week (of just Deca and Test, equal amounts of both, and 1mg/day of 'Dex), which was my highest dose. I've done every dose in-between.

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4x-5x 800-900mg per week is alot... I have ran as high
as 2,500mg total weekly and that was alot... Just curious if you compete
or are just are a size freak

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I don't "compete" in the sense that you mean it, I think...I'm not even a bodybuilder!

(i.e. I don't ever plan on stepping on a stage, I don't own clown pants, string-tank-tops, and have never owned a fag-bag...)

I can't even tell you who Mr.O is, or even when the contest is/was.

Shocking, huh?

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Originally Posted by blown

Check. :)

I'm kinda worried about the dbol dosage - my liver values have a tendancy to get high -

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:scratch: if this is your 1st cycle then how have your liver values gotten high

I would say do a test only cycle for your first cycle. Good work in the gym, good diet and plenty of sleep, and proper PCT, you should get some good keepable gains. Hold on to the EQ for another cycle when it can be run for at least 12 weeks and 14 would be even beter. And alawys run your test at least one week longer then your EQ.
Good luck <<>>

Maybe he drinks alot? Or has some kind of infection or condition?

I certainly drink alot...which is why I pretty much stick to injectables.

I know where you're coming from, Hooker. Right now I'm playing around with 20mg/day of M1T and I wasn't even thinking about it... as per my usual routine, I went into town the other morning and walked into my morning hangout and had me a couple of bloody marys. GAAAAAKKKK! It is easy to forget stuff like that. Gotta write msyelf a note or something. NO ALCOHOL! Well I checked this morning and my eyeballs aren't yellow yet so I guess no harm done.

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Originally Posted by The Baron

I know where you're coming from, Hooker. Right now I'm playing around with 20mg/day of M1T and I wasn't even thinking about it... as per my usual routine, I went into town the other morning and walked into my morning hangout and had me a couple of bloody marys. GAAAAAKKKK! It is easy to forget stuff like that. Gotta write msyelf a note or something. NO ALCOHOL! Well I checked this morning and my eyeballs aren't yellow yet so I guess no harm done.

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Yeah...I drink a decent amount. I don't even think twice about it, really. I was out with JuicyR6 (a BB4L mod) a few weeks ago, and we were polishing off pint after pint at lunch....then he went to work, and I had to sober up (a bit) to get to rugby practice.

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Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

:scratch: if this is your 1st cycle then how have your liver values gotten high

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Well, maybe I'm just being overcautious. I was on Accutane a while back. Had my liver values checked monthly, and of course they got a little high. I was on a relatively low dose though. The last few times I"ve had bloodwork, a couple of the times the doc said they were high. I didn't look at them - maybe they were just BARELY high and my doc is also overcautious. And maybe those times were still being affected by the Accutane, or the PH cycle I did last winter.

Anyhow, that's why I said that my liver values tend to get high. I'm just expecting the dbol to drive up my liver values since I know mine react like that from experience w/ that other stuff.

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Originally Posted by v-force700

I would say do a test only cycle for your first cycle. Good work in the gym, good diet and plenty of sleep, and proper PCT, you should get some good keepable gains. Hold on to the EQ for another cycle when it can be run for at least 12 weeks and 14 would be even beter. And alawys run your test at least one week longer then your EQ.
Good luck <<>>

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What if I did this?

Wk1-4: 25-30mg dbol ED
Wk1-13: 350-375mg test enanth /wk
Wk1-2: 600mg eq /wk front-load
Wk3-12: 350-375mg /wk eq

Better? Or too fancy for my first cycle? I do have everything on-hand to do the above.

It could work. Front loading the eq will have similar effect to beginning the eq sooner and therfore using longer. If you could get a bit more test that would be cherry though. Still, "could work" and "optimum" are two different things. Hey it's your gear and your body. Everything is about decisions and compromises. At least you are making an informed decision and you know the consequences.

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Originally Posted by The Baron

"could work" and "optimum" are two different things..

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Exactly. I look for and endorse the optimal way to do things, nothing less.

Nothing wrong with that at all... I agree with it for the most
part for anyone that's been using for a long period of time...
Optimal dose depends alot of someone's experience and body
chemistry also... Almost everyone reacts differently to most
drugs, so experimenting is the best and only way to know
what will work best for you...

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Originally Posted by hooker

Exactly. I look for and endorse the optimal way to do things, nothing less.

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Originally Posted by The Baron

with vials, how do you feel about air-purging the wastage right back into the jug?

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No...

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Originally Posted by hooker

Exactly. I look for and endorse the optimal way to do things, nothing less.

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So what do you guys think is the "optimal way" here? Drop the eq? Get more test and run it longer?

And how much more test? The way I set it up it would run for 13wks w/ the eq for 12wks. That's not enough? You guys think it should be 13wks eq and 14wks test?

What would your ideal first cycle look like, if you had dbol, eq, and test enanth on-hand?

400mgs of Eq per week
400mgs of Test per week

Go for 12 weeks.

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Originally Posted by hooker

400mgs of Eq per week
400mgs of Test per week

Go for 12 weeks.

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I have just enough to do almost that. Considering wastage in the pin, I could do ~375mg/wk. Or I could just order more. Unfortunately I don't have a local source. Shipping, WU cost, etc.

I should add, I'm looking forward to the appetite increase that most experience w/ eq. I typically have trouble eating enough just b/c I'm not hungry - I frequently have to simply force-feed myself, and that gets old.

Just go with what you have...and run the dosages straight, like I posted. I think that's your best bet, with the amount of stuff you have. Since you have the Dbol on hand, you can use that too, if you want. Just run it at a steady dose for the first 4 weeks, at whatever dose that works out to based on the amount you have on hand (no more than 50mgs/day though...and no less than 20, is a good guideline).

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Originally Posted by hooker

400mgs of Eq per week
400mgs of Test per week

Go for 12 weeks.

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I like this approach

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Originally Posted by hooker

Since you have the Dbol on hand, you can use that too, if you want. Just run it at a steady dose for the first 4 weeks, at whatever dose that works out to based on the amount you have on hand (no more than 50mgs/day though...and no less than 20, is a good guideline).

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Cool. I have 100 10mg tabs, some are broken though. So 30mg/day should be no problem for 4wks.

Broken dbol tabs are fine. In fact, I chew naposims rather than just swallow them whole.