12-23-2004, 11:42 AM #1New Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Aremidex 0.5mg's - 2 per day enough??????
Possible first signs of gyno!
Would 2 pills per day be enough until symtoms subside (sore nipps and little bumps forming around both of them).
12-23-2004, 11:51 AM #2
Go with Nolvadex first 80mg every day until not sore then drop to 20mg every day. This is more cost effective and conversion by aromatise has already happened so now you need anti-estrogen (nolva), if you want to add the AI 1mg of anastrozol (arimidex ) or 2.5 of letrozol (femera) ed along with nolva you could.
12-23-2004, 12:04 PM #3Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
80mgs a day of nolvadex is too much. I've never seen that amount used in a study...I don't know why we all seem to think using 4-8x the theraputic dose will result in 4-8x the results. Thats simply not how AI's and SERMs work.
And 1mg of arimidex is even too much....
...using half a mg gives the same results as a full mg, in terms of estrogen suppression:
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7.
Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.
Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. firstname.lastname@example.org
We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin -like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.
As for Letrozole , 2.5mgs a day is also usually overkill. You can inhibit aromatase at MICROGRAM doses!
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60.
Use of ultrasensitive recombinant cell bioassay to measure estrogen levels in women with breast cancer receiving the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole.
Klein KO, Demers LM, Santner SJ, Baron J, Cutler GB Jr, Santen RJ.
Children's Hospital of Orange County, California 92668, USA.
The development of well tolerated, potent, specific, and nontoxic aromatase inhibitors for the treatment of postmenopausal women with estrogen-dependent breast cancer has been a major goal of recent studies. The third generation inhibitors now under investigation are nearly 10,000-fold more potent than first generation compounds. Currently available RIAs for plasma estradiol lack sufficient sensitivity to measure levels during aromatase inhibition and, thus, to assess drug potency precisely. The availability of an ultrasensitive bioassay for estradiol provided the opportunity to accurately assess the potency of a new third generation triazole aromatase inhibitor, letrozole (CGS 20267). We used this assay to measure estradiol levels in 14 women with metastatic breast cancer given letrozole at doses of 100 micrograms to 5.0 mg/day over a 12-week period. The lack of differences between doses and sampling times allowed pooling of data. Basal estradiol levels of 7.2 +/- 1.9 pmol/L (mean +/- SEM, 1.95 +/- 0.52 pg/mL) fell to 0.26 +/- 0.11 pmol/L (0.07 +/- 0.03 pg/mL) during the first 6 weeks of therapy and to 0.48 +/- 0.18 pmol/L (0.13 +/- 0.05 pg/mL) during the second 6 weeks of therapy. Although plasma estradiol levels measured by RIA were significantly correlated with levels measured by bioassay (r = 0.79; P < 0.01), the degree of suppression assessed by the bioassay (95 +/- 2% after 6 weeks) was greater than that determined by the RIA (81 +/- 4%), presumably due to improved ability to measure very low estradiol levels. We conclude that plasma estradiol is suppressed by letrozole to lower levels than previously observed, with equivalent suppression at all doses studied. A slight, although not statistically significant, rebound in estradiol levels occurs during the second 6 weeks of therapy compared to the first 6 weeks. Maximum inhibition of aromatase is achieved at letrozole doses as low as 100 micrograms.
In terms of suppressing estrogen, using megadoses of ancillary compounds is certainly not warranted.
12-23-2004, 12:19 PM #4Originally Posted by hooker
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