1st aas

[soo2bhuge]

everyone i talk to had either used test or deca as their first steroid of choice. what would u guys recommend if you were to choose just one? and why?

[BigJames]

Test. It is the base for all cycles (mostly).

[soo2bhuge]

aren't there more side effects with test than deca , yet similar results?

[BigJames]

The sides are different. Test sides are estrogen related, but Deca sides are progesterone related which are a little harder to combat. Also, with deca, your system shusts down and can leave you "unable to perform" (deca dick). The test allows you to function normally. I am not an expert, I would hold out for some more experienced opinions. You should check out the steroid profiles as they should explain better. The general thing you will find is that experienced members will recommend Test as the base (400 - 500mg/wk for 10 weeks or more) with deca, Eq, or another substance on top the augment the Test. Test is King. If you choose one drug, choose Test.

[BigJames]

The results are different to as far as I understand... Test is more androgenic and Deca is more anabolic ...but again, I would wait for someone to confirm that before you go with it. Check the profiles...

[soo2bhuge]

The results are different to as far as I understand... Test is more androgenic and Deca is more anabolic...but again, I would wait for someone to confirm that before you go with it. Check the profiles...

thanx for your response. i actually read an article in hardcore muscle magazine that put deca above test. i read the profiles and i was familiar with the sides, so i just wanted to know opinions of more experienced users. thanx again.

[BigJames]

I am not the be all end all...the side effects aside...make sure you know what you are getting into before starting with either. In general though, the other members of this board will recommend Test almost every time. Deca Dick is no good.

[c5529]

We need some more info from you Bro -- what are your goals for your steroid cycle, how is your diet, and for how long have you been training?

[soo2bhuge]

We need some more info from you Bro -- what are your goals for your steroid cycle, how is your diet, and for how long have you been training?

i'm 23. 6' 220lb. i've been lifting for about 4 or 5 years. i've been keeping a pretty good diet for a while now. i'm on anavar right now, but i don't think it's doing much for me at 50mg/day. any suggestions?

[c5529]

Ok, if I were just choosing one, I would definitely go with the Test due to the reasons stated above....You'll be very pleased with Test....You might research some of the suggested cycles on this website and other threads for other options too. Are you set on just one injectable for your cycle?

[soo2bhuge]

Ok, if I were just choosing one, I would definitely go with the Test due to the reasons stated above....You'll be very pleased with Test....You might research some of the suggested cycles on this website and other threads for other options too. Are you set on just one injectable for your cycle?

yeah. u know i just wanted to start out slow. i want to see how my body reacts, because i easily put on mass. i was even gonna start out with only 250-300mg/week. and then go up. i have a feeling i'll be holding alot of water. but i'm planning on running in the morning and i also do mma a few times a week.

[jbol]

test cyp or test e should be your first...longer ester=less injections

[soo2bhuge]

test cyp or test e should be your first...longer ester=less injections

that's another problem i was debating because i tend to hold water easily, yet at the same time, i've never done injections before and i want to see how i react by just doing once-a-week injections. plus i hear cyp is painful. my cycle was going to be simple and look like this...
week 1-10 test e (250mg/wk +)
week 1-12 nolva (20mg)
week 11-13 clomid (300/150/50)

[c5529]

Just my opinion, but I'd go a bit higher on the test, maybe 500 mgs per week for your first cycle....I think you'll be very pleased with 500.....your nolva and clomid look good.........

[TheBrent]

test cyp or test e should be your first...longer ester=less injections

word! lol.

the anavar that you are doing right now, might need to be kicked up to 75 mg a day, that is what is being suggested on many of the threads that involve it. Theres also some threads (one posted by money boss hustla) that say an anavar only cycle isnt going to be all that great. check out a bunch of threads on these issues.

I'd go with a test only for a first cycle, thats what almost everyone will suggest. test e or cyp 500mg a week.

[jbol]

i like the thought that your just using one aas...so if there are problems you know what is causing them,but id run it like so
weeks 1-10 test cyp or test e 400mg/wk (200mg mondays 200mg thursdays)
weeks 1-end pct 20mg nolva ed
2 weeks after last shot of test..... pct with clomid

[soo2bhuge]

Just my opinion, but I'd go a bit higher on the test, maybe 500 mgs per week for your first cycle....I think you'll be very pleased with 500.....your nolva and clomid look good.........

word! lol.

the anavar that you are doing right now, might need to be kicked up to 75 mg a day, that is what is being suggested on many of the threads that involve it. Theres also some threads (one posted by money boss hustla) that say an anavar only cycle isnt going to be all that great. check out a bunch of threads on these issues.

I'd go with a test only for a first cycle, thats what almost everyone will suggest. test e or cyp 500mg a week.

thanx guys. can i just stop var for now and wait to start test? also, why does everyone recommend such high dosages? i'm not flaming or anything but isn't 500mg a bit high for a first-timer? i'm not looking to put on 20lbs. maybe 10 or so.

[soo2bhuge]

i like the thought that your just using one aas...so if there are problems you know what is causing them,but id run it like so
weeks 1-10 test cyp or test e 400mg/wk (200mg mondays 200mg thursdays)
weeks 1-end pct 20mg nolva ed
2 weeks after last shot of test..... pct with clomid

thanx to all of u guys for your recommendations. everyone is so helpful on this site. i think i got it down pretty well for the first cycle. 400-500mg/wk (2 shots mon/thur) plus proper pct.

[c5529]

just my opinion, but I think 400 to 500 is very modest particuarly since you are not taking any other AAS with the Test and your only doing it for 10 weeks. IMO, 250 per week won't do too much for you taken alone for 10 weeks. . Yes, you can stop the var if you want now....

[TheBrent]

Testoviron depot check out this thread, the guy has gained 10 lbs in 4 weeks with only 250mg. everyone is different though and of course a lot of that 10lbs can be water weight. you are also a fairly big guy at 220lbs so i'd say 400-500 mg a week of test should be sufficient. if you get on that is 250mg/ml then just take 2 shots a week or 1 double shot. same follow if its 200mg/ml test, either should be a good dose for a first cycle (not counting the anavar )

[soo2bhuge]

is it a good idea to just stick to one aas for a first time user?

[TheBrent]

is it a good idea to just stick to one aas for a first time user?

I've been talking to a lot of vets and senior members about a first cycle, and most all will suggest a test only 1st cycle, your body isnt used to taking anything else (other than var) so it should respond quite well to it. test is the base ingredient to almost every cycle, it should be fine to take alone, just make sure you do a proper pct.

[soo2bhuge]

I've been talking to a lot of vets and senior members about a first cycle, and most all will suggest a test only 1st cycle, your body isnt used to taking anything else (other than var) so it should respond quite well to it. test is the base ingredient to almost every cycle, it should be fine to take alone, just make sure you do a proper pct.

sounds good. to keep the water down from test e, can i jog every morning for about 20 min?

[TheBrent]

nolvadex during a cycle can help keep water retention down... im not positive on the dosage during a cycle, i believe its 20mg a day but i'll look it up

[TheBrent]

For the steroid using male athlete, Femara shows great potential. Up
to this point, drugs like Nolvadex and Proviron have been our weapons
against excess estrogen. These drugs, especially in combination, do
prove
quite effective. But Femara appears able to do the job much more
efficiently,
and with less hassle. Its use is only now catching on, but early
reports
have been excellent. A single tablet daily, the same dose use
clinically,
seems to be all one needs for an exceptional effect (some even report
excellent results with only 1/4 tablet daily). When used with strong,
readily aromatizing androgens such as Dianabol or testosterone ,
gynecomastia
and water retention can be effectively blocked. In combination with
Propecia
(finasteride), we have a great advance. With the one drug halting
estrogen
conversion and the other blocking 5-alpha reduction (testosterone,
methyltestosterone
and Halotestin only), related side effects can be effectively
minimized.
Here the strong androgen testosterone could theoretically provide
incredible
muscular growth, while at the same time being as tolerable as
nandrolone .
Additionally the quality of the muscle should be greater, the athlete
appearing harder and much more defined without holding excess water.

There are some concerns with using an aromatase inhibitor such as this
during prolonged steroid treatment however. While it will effectively
reduce estrogenic side effects, it will also block the beneficial
properties
of estrogen from becoming apparent (namely its effect on cholesterol
values). Studies have clearly shown that when an aromatase inhibitor
is used in conjunction with a steroid such as testosterone, suppression
of HDL (good) cholesterol becomes much more pronounced. Apparently
estrogen
plays a role in minimizing the negative impact of steroid use . Since
the estrogen receptor antagonist Nolvadex does not display an
anti-estrogenic
effect on cholesterol values, it is the preferred from of estrogen
maintenance
for those concerned with cardiovascular health.

posted by - PurePower

the downside to using an anti e is that it can hinder some of your gains while being on your cycle. after your cycle you should loose a lot of the water weight as well as after the pct.

[soo2bhuge]

For the steroid using male athlete, Femara shows great potential. Up
to this point, drugs like Nolvadex and Proviron have been our weapons
against excess estrogen. These drugs, especially in combination, do
prove
quite effective. But Femara appears able to do the job much more
efficiently,
and with less hassle. Its use is only now catching on, but early
reports
have been excellent. A single tablet daily, the same dose use
clinically,
seems to be all one needs for an exceptional effect (some even report
excellent results with only 1/4 tablet daily). When used with strong,
readily aromatizing androgens such as Dianabol or testosterone ,
gynecomastia
and water retention can be effectively blocked. In combination with
Propecia
(finasteride), we have a great advance. With the one drug halting
estrogen
conversion and the other blocking 5-alpha reduction (testosterone,
methyltestosterone
and Halotestin only), related side effects can be effectively
minimized.
Here the strong androgen testosterone could theoretically provide
incredible
muscular growth, while at the same time being as tolerable as
nandrolone .
Additionally the quality of the muscle should be greater, the athlete
appearing harder and much more defined without holding excess water.

There are some concerns with using an aromatase inhibitor such as this
during prolonged steroid treatment however. While it will effectively
reduce estrogenic side effects, it will also block the beneficial
properties
of estrogen from becoming apparent (namely its effect on cholesterol
values). Studies have clearly shown that when an aromatase inhibitor
is used in conjunction with a steroid such as testosterone, suppression
of HDL (good) cholesterol becomes much more pronounced. Apparently
estrogen
plays a role in minimizing the negative impact of steroid use . Since
the estrogen receptor antagonist Nolvadex does not display an
anti-estrogenic
effect on cholesterol values, it is the preferred from of estrogen
maintenance
for those concerned with cardiovascular health.

posted by - PurePower

the downside to using an anti e is that it can hinder some of your gains while being on your cycle. after your cycle you should loose a lot of the water weight as well as after the pct.

thanx for all the extra info. should i add proviron to nolva during the cycle then?

[TheBrent]

thanx for all the extra info. should i add proviron to nolva during the cycle then?

I'm not that informed on the use(s) of proviron so hopefully someone with a little more experience can give you some help with this one.

but here's a little article on proviron, it seems like it'd be a good idea to take it but i cant give you a yes or no. check this out, especially if you wanna take test...



Characteristics:

Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron , but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.

Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.

The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.

Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.

Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone , with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone , nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone , or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.

Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid , as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.

Stacking and Use:

Mesterolone is an oral alkylated steroid. If used primarily as an anti-aromatase drug, using it throughout a longer cycle (10-12 weeks) of injectables may elevate liver values a little bit, though much, much less than one would expect with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. Eventhough instead of inhibiting gains, mesterolone may actually contribute to gains. So that's a bit of a shame. Its not quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown, but not like 17-alpha alkylation. The reason for the change of position I assume, is because alkylating at the 17-alpha position has been shown to reduce affinity for sex hormone binding proteins. This would in turn decrease its ability to free testosterone. Nonetheless the delivery rate is quite good. Its taken daily in 50-100 mg doses.

The best thing to stack it with is testosterone of course. Its most easily bound to SHBG and albumin, and deactivated for up to 98%. Since the DHT can compete for these structures with higher affinity it would naturally lead to a higher yield of whatever testosterone product you stacked it with. Since DHT levels are notably higher now there is also more stimulation of the androgen receptor causing more strength gains, and because of its affinity for aromatase the overall estrogen level decreases as well. This has as a result that gains are leaner, and once again the overall testosterone yield is increased as less I converted at the aromatase enzyme.

It's of course used in other stacks with products such as methandrostenolone , boldenone and nandrolone to reduce estrogenic activity and increase muscle hardness. The addition of proviron makes boldenone a dead lock for a cutting stack and for some may even make it possible to use nandrolone while cutting, although the use of Winstrol or a receptor antagonist in conjunction is wishful as well. The benefit of adding it to a nandrolone stack is that it may also help you reduce the decrease in libido suffered from nandrolone, since the latter is mostly deactivated by 5-alpha reductase, an enzyme that makes other hormones more androgenic.

Proviron is an anti-aromatase, so obviously anti-estrogens would be futile and redundant. Blood pressure medication for those prone to hypertension may be wise, as this DHT can increase the blood pressure.


Peter "big cat" van mol bb.com

[c5529]

sorry for the delay, I've been gone a couple of days for Christmas. My suggestion to you based on your goals, current size, and the threads above is to go with Test E at 500 mgs per week (one shot Monday and one Thursday both at 250mgs), Nolvadex 20 mgs per day, and not try Proviron yet....Just see how your body reacts with the Test E and Nolva and then for a later cycle you can look at other items such as Proviron...Again, this is just my 2 cents....

[soo2bhuge]

sorry for the delay, I've been gone a couple of days for Christmas. My suggestion to you based on your goals, current size, and the threads above is to go with Test E at 500 mgs per week (one shot Monday and one Thursday both at 250mgs), Nolvadex 20 mgs per day, and not try Proviron yet....Just see how your body reacts with the Test E and Nolva and then for a later cycle you can look at other items such as Proviron...Again, this is just my 2 cents....

why don't u recommend proviron ? will it hinder my gains some how???

[Fit2bLarge]

tren and prop

thats all i need

[c5529]

no, it definitely won't hinder your gains, but I'd keep your cycle simple for your first one. Then you can really see what the affects of the Test E will be on your body. Since you want to add 10 pounds at your size, I really don't think you need anything too complicated or in addition to the test/nolva. I'd say to try the test and see how it works, then think about adding other compounds for subsequent cycles......

[wolfyEVH]

Just my opinion, but I'd go a bit higher on the test, maybe 500 mgs per week for your first cycle....I think you'll be very pleased with 500.....your nolva and clomid look good.........


thanx guys. can i just stop var for now and wait to start test? also, why does everyone recommend such high dosages? i'm not flaming or anything but isn't 500mg a bit high for a first-timer? i'm not looking to put on 20lbs. maybe 10 or so.

if you're only lookin to put on 10 lbs, then you shouldnt be doing steroids in the first place

[TheBrent]

not a bad point...10 pounds could be put on quite easily with proper training and diet alone

if you're only lookin to put on 10 lbs, then you shouldnt be doing steroids in the first place

[Hed]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but you wont notice the test kick in until the 4th week or so, so you may want to do 12 weeks instead of 10. Those extra 2 weeks will work well for you...

[tony1leg]

Test prop 50 mg eod. It worked fine for my first cycle
clomid, nolvax, PCt blah blah blah