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12-30-2004, 11:24 PM #1Associate Member
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12-30-2004, 11:28 PM #2
i dont think ur poll worked but prop, fina(tren ) and var is a great cycle. i personally dont like winny. fina actually burns fat and var will harden u up and give great pumps.
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12-30-2004, 11:31 PM #3VET Retired
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All androgens add in fat loss.
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12-30-2004, 11:33 PM #4Originally Posted by big k.l.g
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12-30-2004, 11:34 PM #5Associate Member
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i have heard more people say they dont like winniy more than i hear peoplpe say they like it
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12-30-2004, 11:58 PM #6
I love winny! Just hate the joint pain that comes with it
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01-01-2005, 07:29 AM #7Originally Posted by eport
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01-01-2005, 02:10 PM #8Associate Member
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Originally Posted by eport
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01-01-2005, 03:08 PM #9
don't forget about masteron .
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01-01-2005, 03:25 PM #10
i love tren . Great mass and burns fat.
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01-01-2005, 03:28 PM #11Member
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Tren is the best...great for fat, mass, and vascularity.....I use it as much as possible with my cycles....
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01-01-2005, 03:42 PM #12
Tren , prolly the easiest to get your hands on as well. Tren can be really harsh and unforgiving though if you don't handle your cycle properly.
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01-01-2005, 04:11 PM #13VET Retired
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Originally Posted by 01dragonslayer
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01-01-2005, 04:15 PM #14Originally Posted by big k.l.g
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01-01-2005, 04:28 PM #15Member
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I don't know why EQ is not on the list, as far as Cutting, Price, keeping gains and sides I would rate this the top one. I don't think EQ is that hard on joints either, yes it might dry them out a little but the extra blood supply helps the joints out too. Mix it with test and it's the perfect combo. Tren shuts you down hard and has a number of bad sides, Var's good and with winny I've heard to many bad things to even try "I like my hair".
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01-01-2005, 04:33 PM #16VET Retired
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Originally Posted by Jackman
Effects of androgen therapy on adipose tissue and metabolism in older men.
Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Ong MD, Martinez C, Flores C, Stewart Y, Azen C, Sattler FR.
Department of Medicine and Division of Infectious Diseases, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033, USA.
We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 +/- 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 +/- 12 cm(2); P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 +/- 12.1 cm(2); P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 +/- 0.23 to 0.49 +/- 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 +/- 6.7 cm(2) (P < 0.001) and -2.2 +/- 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r >or= 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 +/- 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 +/- 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 +/- 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.Publication Types:
• Clinical Trial
• Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 15472177 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
That is one I've got others showing testosterone and nandrolone "burn fat".
The stronger the binding to the AR the greater the fat loss. That's one of the reasons tren burns fat so well.Last edited by BajanBastard; 01-01-2005 at 04:35 PM.
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01-01-2005, 04:39 PM #17Writer
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