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01-01-2005, 12:30 PM #1Member
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01-01-2005, 12:39 PM #2VET Retired
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Estrogen.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):345-56. Related Articles, Links
Novel treatment of short stature with aromatase inhibitors.
Dunkel L, Wickman S.
Hospital for Children and Adolescents, University of Helsinki, PO Box 281, Helsinki 00029 HUS, Finland. [email protected]
Estrogens have an essential role in the regulation of bone maturation and importantly in the closure of growth plates in both sexes. This prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled study was undertaken to evaluate whether suppression of estrogen synthesis in pubertal boys delays bone maturation and ultimately results in increased adult height. A total of 23 boys with constitutional delay of puberty (CDP) received a conventional, low-dose testosterone treatment for inducing progression of puberty. Eleven of these 23 boys were randomized to receive a specific and potent P450-aromatase inhibitor, letrozole , for suppression of estrogen action, and 12 boys were randomized to receive placebo. Estradiol concentrations in the letrozole-treated boys remained at the pretreatment level during the administration of letrozole, whereas the concentrations increased during the treatment with testosterone alone and during spontaneous progression of puberty. Testosterone concentrations increased in all groups, but during the letrozole treatment, the increase was more than fivefold higher than in the group treated with testosterone alone. The inhibition of estrogen synthesis delayed bone maturation. The slower bone maturation in the boys treated with testosterone and letrozole, despite higher androgen concentrations, than in the boys treated with testosterone indicate that estrogens are more important than androgens in regulation of bone maturation in pubertal boys. During the 18 months follow-up, an increase of 5.1 cm in predicted adult height was observed in the boys who received testosterone and letrozole, but no change was seen in the boys who received testosterone alone or in the untreated boys. This finding indicates that an increase in adult height can be attained in growing adolescent boys by inhibiting of estrogen action.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 14623531 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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01-01-2005, 01:16 PM #3Member
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so then how much nolva does it take to completely close the growth plates?
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01-01-2005, 01:40 PM #4VET Retired
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You only heard ONE person saying that here and he showed no proof to the claim.
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01-01-2005, 02:12 PM #5
didn't close mine i'm 19 and I grew a 1/2 inch this year...
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01-01-2005, 03:52 PM #6Member
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Originally Posted by big k.l.g
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01-01-2005, 03:55 PM #7VET Retired
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Originally Posted by jgg1221
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01-01-2005, 03:59 PM #8Member
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ok well what im curious is do testosterone esters and other various roids close growth plates? it says that on the steroid .com drug profiles but ive heard SEVERAL people say that is the estrogen, not the roids... cant remember where/who in the forum they said it though, sorry
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01-01-2005, 06:34 PM #9
ok. so, if u were 19, and going to juice, what would u use for your pct and anti-e's? would nolva not be a good idea during a cycle of dbol & test?
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01-01-2005, 11:48 PM #10Originally Posted by jgg1221
In many cases anavar and testosterone have been used to INCREASE height in certain individuals with ISS, and certain other disorders, but the testosterone subsequently lead to higher estrogenic production, leaving an aromitase inhibitor the only choice to prevent growth form being halted in its tracks!
Run letrozole, start at 1.25mg every day, and work your dose up as needed. In ideal circumstances you would have an endocrinologist perform epiphyseal bone growth studies to determine if you had any lateral growth to be achieved...but in the real world, not many people trust their doctors with steroid cycles!
You may run the clomid for PCT as needed, but during cycle many people do not feel the need for nolvadex , as its anti-estrogenic capabilities are far overpowered by the letrozole anyway! A PCT of tribulus, and other testosterone stimulating compounds would lessen the chance of epiphyseal fusion, but personally, i couldn't live without my balls and biceps
the girls just wouldn't want me anymoreLast edited by angelxterminator; 01-01-2005 at 11:52 PM.
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01-02-2005, 03:19 AM #11
i did 2 cycles before and i just finished my third, my first cycle i did i didnt use any kinda of anti-e, but for the 2nd and 3rd one i used an anti-aromitase. do u think my growth plates have closes
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01-02-2005, 11:40 AM #12Originally Posted by bignuts
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01-02-2005, 02:03 PM #13Originally Posted by angelxterminator
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01-02-2005, 02:13 PM #14Writer
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Originally Posted by big k.l.g
(Like Mine...)
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01-02-2005, 02:16 PM #15
does m1t give great gains if your on it long enough? i was on it for 2 weeks and didnt notice shot.
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01-02-2005, 02:47 PM #16Originally Posted by jsimon
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01-02-2005, 04:42 PM #17
I saw like 12lbs in 2 weeks on that stuff. Lost about 5 of em tho.
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01-02-2005, 09:36 PM #18Originally Posted by Nutz56
But my advice is to wait until you are about 20 to 21 to make sure you have stopped growing.
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01-03-2005, 10:34 AM #19Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by jgg1221
There is very clear evidence and studies that phyto estrogen found in soy products and licorice can close the growth plates, and phytoestrogens are not as strong of a estrogen receptor activator as nolva and clomid are. This is because for generations, Japanese and Chinese have had high soy diets, however in modern times, take the Japanese and Chinese decendants out of those countries, give them no tofu or soy products during adolescence and they grow much taller then their parents/grandparents because you've taken the phyto estrogen out of their diet.
The closest evidence you will find is the rare circumstance of young girls having breast cancer before the age of 20, Nolva therapy was found to stop height growth, this can be found on breastcancer.org.Last edited by Ntpadude; 01-03-2005 at 10:44 AM.
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01-07-2005, 04:22 PM #20
what dose of testosterone would you run to increase height? is it possible to do a cycle that will both increase height as well as mass while using a test and letro and possibly anavar ?
AngelX letro 1.25mg a day, starting 2 weeks pre-cycle, what about when you are coming off, wait 3 weeks for pct and use things such as tribu avena etc? when do you stop letro?
thanks bro
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01-07-2005, 05:17 PM #21Originally Posted by TheBrent
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01-07-2005, 05:30 PM #22Originally Posted by 9000rpm
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01-07-2005, 05:58 PM #23Originally Posted by TheBrent
First of all, absolutely not test promotes growth in height.
Second, I'm the one that posted that growth hormone is given to kids while in puberty to prolong their growth spurt so they can grow taller.
Is there anything else you would like to mix up and make yourself look retarded?
And please don't come back and say, "yeah, test, GH,....same thing".
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01-07-2005, 06:42 PM #24Originally Posted by 9000rpm
angelX- can you help me with some info on this one or a study?
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01-07-2005, 07:09 PM #25
thanks MMA. im in the process of researching a lot about the arom-inhibitors like letro. i've been discusing this with our height specialist for a little while. the idea of letro before and during a test cycle sounds prettyy feasable. after a lot more research i may be planning on doing a cycle consisting of test and letro, then an all natural pct i.e. avena sativa trib etc...
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01-07-2005, 07:26 PM #26
i like your take on this. i love to get advice and critiscism. im holding out until i believe i know "enough" not that one can really know enough about the subject. im trying to become as well educated as possible before i even attempt to start anything that could potentially harm me
Originally Posted by MMA
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01-07-2005, 10:58 PM #27
haha, yeah ive checked out these so called "FORUMS". there is a lot of great info in them, but i sure havent checked them out enough. i am also planning on getting a solid and lean 15 lbs, like you said.
Originally Posted by MMALast edited by TheBrent; 01-07-2005 at 11:24 PM.
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01-08-2005, 11:58 AM #28Originally Posted by MMA
As for the AS helping growth, I'm still skeptic about that. Like you said, you will grow faster, but will you grow taller? There are plenty of proven medical studies about GH being used to lengthen growth spurts in kids in puberty. Why use anything else when GH is proven to work and it is used today to do exactly that.
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01-08-2005, 12:04 PM #29
gh is pricey
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01-08-2005, 12:29 PM #30
my friend grew almost an inch after doing 2 cycles
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01-08-2005, 01:20 PM #31Originally Posted by TheBrent
It's always better to be safe than sorry.
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01-08-2005, 06:39 PM #32
They used anavar before they had gh i believe, and by the way i like how you called him a jackass when infact you were doing what you accused him of
Originally Posted by 9000rpm
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