DEca whats to long to run it???

[quaker48]

i was just wondering what be to long to wrong deca at with a low dosage of 150-200mgs a week?? would 15 or maybe even 18 weeks be to long???? looking for some info.

[seanw]

On its own ? Please God can we not have this conversation again !

[juiceinthehood]

i was just wondering what be to long to wrong deca at with a low dosage of 150-200mgs a week?? would 15 or maybe even 18 weeks be to long???? looking for some info.

150-200mg a wk. is not enough unless ur looking to just lube ur joints
dont run it alone it shuts u down harder than most a.s.

[Swifto]

no test no cycle! use it wit 500mg test e and bump ur deca up to 300-400mg per wk, run for 10weeks and u got urself a cycle

[ChefJ]

I love deca just for joint soreness at 300mg per week but would probably never run it alone.

[quaker48]

i plan on running test, here's my idea( rember just an idea) run 10 mgs of d-bol for 50days, test e 250mgs for 20weeks, deca - 150 mgs for 19 weeks. i thought maybe i would make more keep able gains running it like this with proper deit and pct. but rember just an idea but could use your opions.

[juiceinthehood]

i plan on running test, here's my idea( rember just an idea) run 10 mgs of d-bol for 50days, test e 250mgs for 20weeks, deca- 150 mgs for 19 weeks. i thought maybe i would make more keep able gains running it like this with proper deit and pct. but rember just an idea but could use your opions.

totally wrong
weeks
1-4 dbol 30-4omg ed
1-12 test e 200mg 2x a wk. or 250mg 2x a wk.
1-11 deca 150mg 2x a wk. or 200mg 2x a wk.
start pct week 15
also run letro ed @ .25 or.5
clomid and nolva for pct search the pct forum
just my idea even though i dont like deca i prefer eq over deca

and by the way whats are your stats

[quaker48]

yes, i know all of this, look at my post may past post, i was just wondering that if lowering the dosage and running them longer would produce more keep able gains im not some newbie on here. i was just wondering about this idea

[juiceinthehood]

yes, i know all of this, look at my post may past post, i was just wondering that if lowering the dosage and running them longer would produce more keep able gains im not some newbie on here. i was just wondering about this idea

i dont think so keepable gains come from proper diet and proper pct
if ur not some newbie u should know this

[quaker48]

well if look at my previous statment the 1st one u replied to, i said pct and proper deit will be in check, but thanks for your replys, just wondering on my idea, i heard thats what alot of the older pro's use to do, but thanks for your info

[Property of Steroid.com]

yes, i know all of this, look at my post may past post, i was just wondering that if lowering the dosage and running them longer would produce more keep able gains im not some newbie on here. i was just wondering about this idea

I don't know if there's a positive correlation between keeping gains and longer/lower dose cycles....

Many things could happen:

You gain 30lbs in 12 weeks, and keep 20 on a high(er) dose cycle...

but maybe you could gain 15 (and keep all of it) on a long/lower dose cycle...then on one hand you keep 100% of your gains...but in actuality you have more net gains by losing 1/3 of them and keeping the 20lbs from the higher dose cycle.

There's alot of possibilities, and one is keeping a high % of gains, but actually having less net gains in the end.

If you think that your way will work (and it's possible...though not highly probable), then give it a go....and tell us your results.

[juiceinthehood]

well if look at my previous statment the 1st one u replied to, i said pct and proper deit will be in check, but thanks for your replys, just wondering on my idea, i heard thats what alot of the older pro's use to do, but thanks for your info

i never heard of that
i figure if you do 10 grams of test over a period of ten weeks its the same as doing 10 grams over a period of 20 weeks same amount test diff. length of cycles slower growth
i believe keepable gains come from diet and pct.

[quaker48]

thanxs for your advice hooker, also wouldnt the sides be lower as well??? just wondering, What im worried about is putting out the cash and and not being happy with my resalts. I mean i wanna be able to at least gain 15lbs at the very least. So im not really sure what im gonna do .

[quaker48]

juiceinthehood, i got the idea from i beleave it was Bask8case thread im not sure if that correct name but something like that. i found it to be very enteresting u might wanna check it out.

[juiceinthehood]

juiceinthehood, i got the idea from i beleave it was Bask8case thread im not sure if that correct name but something like that. i found it to be very enteresting u might wanna check it out.

do u have a link to it
is it the low dose cycles one

[DEVLDOG]

i dont understand why people still believe they will keep the gains they achieve from a cycle...it cant be done.if you gain 30 lbs of muscle,it was achieved through having higher then normal test levels,being able to train harder and heavier,being able to recover faster and being able to utilize nutrients more proficiently..when your off your body will try and return to normal(homiostasis)it will burn the muscle for energy because it wont be able to maintain it because your hormone levels have dropped,you arent training as hard as you were(even though you may be trying)...etc.just look at pro bb's who retire,they are not 1/2 the size as when they were on..if you want to get big and stay big,then there is no coming off....depends on your goals,what your willing to do to achieve them

[Property of Steroid.com]

thanxs for your advice hooker, also wouldnt the sides be lower as well??? just wondering, .

Sometimes. Honestly, there is a dose-respondant curve with most steroids in terms of weight and strength gain....but not a dose respondant curve, with regards to sides.

Its highly possible that you do a 500mgs of testosterone + 500mgs of Deca per week, and experience no side effects at all (if you use proper ancillaries). It is, however, highly improbable, that you do a cycle with 1/2 of those doses and still gain as much weight and strength.

Many studies have shown that higher doses result in more gains....thats a positively correlated effect....however, those higher doses are not always positively correlated with side effects.

[quaker48]

yes i think that was what the thread was under juiceinthe hood,

[juiceinthehood]

i dont understand why people still believe they will keep the gains they achieve from a cycle...it cant be done.if you gain 30 lbs of muscle,it was achieved through having higher then normal test levels,being able to train harder and heavier,being able to recover faster and being able to utilize nutrients more proficiently..when your off your body will try and return to normal(homiostasis)it will burn the muscle for energy because it wont be able to maintain it because your hormone levels have dropped,you arent training as hard as you were(even though you may be trying)...etc.just look at pro bb's who retire,they are not 1/2 the size as when they were on..if you want to get big and stay big,then there is no coming off....depends on your goals,what your willing to do to achieve them

so then why do i still have most of my gains
by the way ive been off for over a year

[Hed]

so then why do i still have most of my gains
by the way ive been off for over a year

Exactly what i was thinkin. I know plenty of people who got off cycles and lost like 20% of what they gained, kept the rest. Now, if you go into PCT, and never work out again for a year, yes, you will lose it.

[quaker48]

thanks again hooker for all your help , my last last cyle was test 500mgs and deca 300mgs for 10 weeks didnt experiance any sides really liked it, was 186 went 211, now im around 203-05, well i did have one side was my nuts shrank, but retunred to normal after pct.But thanks for all your info

[juiceinthehood]

Exactly what i was thinkin. I know plenty of people who got off cycles and lost like 20% of what they gained, kept the rest. Now, if you go into PCT, and never work out again for a year, yes, you will lose it.

yeah i dont think thats true when im off cycle i train just as hard and eat just as good when im on
its been more than a year and i have retained alot of my gains

[DEVLDOG]

so then why do i still have most of my gains
by the way ive been off for over a year

what do you consider "most of your gains"...i started 17yrs ago at 180lbs and i now weigh 290 at 10%bf if i clean up i will drop to around 250,,,that is where my body functions best at,but i do not consider that keeping my gains even though i would still be 70 lbs heavier then when i started.it is impossable for me or anyone else for that matter to maintain,your optimum condition clean compared to being on.

[Jackman]

i dont understand why people still believe they will keep the gains they achieve from a cycle...it cant be done.if you gain 30 lbs of muscle,it was achieved through having higher then normal test levels,being able to train harder and heavier,being able to recover faster and being able to utilize nutrients more proficiently..when your off your body will try and return to normal(homiostasis)it will burn the muscle for energy because it wont be able to maintain it because your hormone levels have dropped,you arent training as hard as you were(even though you may be trying)...etc.just look at pro bb's who retire,they are not 1/2 the size as when they were on..if you want to get big and stay big,then there is no coming off....depends on your goals,what your willing to do to achieve them

not true its been about 8 months since i touched a needle and actually have more muscle now than i did, i dont get why you always say this. Of course your going to loose some of the gains you get but theres no need to cycle year round.

[Jackman]

what do you consider "most of your gains"...i started 17yrs ago at 180lbs and i now weigh 290 at 10%bf if i clean up i will drop to around 250,,,that is where my body functions best at,but i do not consider that keeping my gains even though i would still be 70 lbs heavier then when i started.it is impossable for me or anyone else for that matter to maintain,your optimum condition clean compared to being on.

well this and what you said are 2 TOTALLY different things, of course your peak on juice is going to be higher than your peak off.

[quaker48]

another thing that sparked this thread for me is look at ronnie and aronald, who would u wanna look like. for me aronald looks way better. Also i heard the gear he used was not even close to the high amounts that ronnie uses. Hell look at doren yates right now and aronald from T3 I would pick aronald over doren right now as well and i thin it is related the the amount of gear that they both used. just my opion

[DEVLDOG]

thanks again hooker for all your help , my last last cyle was test 500mgs and deca 300mgs for 10 weeks didnt experiance any sides really liked it, was 186 went 211, now im around 203-05, well i did have one side was my nuts shrank, but retunred to normal after pct.But thanks for all your info

even though you only dropped 6-7lbs,your body composition has most likely changed...the scale is only one tool for measuring progress bro.next time have your bf checked before during and after..you will see the diference

[DEVLDOG]

well this and what you said are 2 TOTALLY different things, of course your peak on juice is going to be higher than your peak off.

yeah,you are right,thats obvious and that is what i was getting at,these threads where people ask what the will maintain are rediculous,they are only fooling themselves thinhing they will maintain everything they achieve while on,because for alot of them the size and weight gain are mostly water weight.

[DEVLDOG]

another thing that sparked this thread for me is look at ronnie and aronald, who would u wanna look like. for me aronald looks way better. Also i heard the gear he used was not even close to the high amounts that ronnie uses. Hell look at doren yates right now and aronald from T3 I would pick aronald over doren right now as well and i thin it is related the the amount of gear that they both used. just my opion

dont overlook Genetics

[DEVLDOG]

not true its been about 8 months since i touched a needle and actually have more muscle now than i did, i dont get why you always say this. Of course your going to loose some of the gains you get but theres no need to cycle year round.

you being able to gain more muscle since you have been off,just proves that you have not reached your genetic limits and should not be using anything other then proper diet and training until then...good for you bro.

[quaker48]

yes i know genetics play a huge roll

[Property of Steroid.com]

thanks again hooker for all your help , my last last cyle was test 500mgs and deca 300mgs for 10 weeks didnt experiance any sides really liked it, was 186 went 211, now im around 203-05, well i did have one side was my nuts shrank, but retunred to normal after pct.But thanks for all your info

Well, thats the key. You gained 35lbs and lost 10. I doubt you'd even gain 20 on the cycle you proposed in your first post.

[Jackman]

you being able to gain more muscle since you have been off,just proves that you have not reached your genetic limits and should not be using anything other then proper diet and training until then...good for you bro.

hell if im not at my genetic limit then i have some hell good genetics as i am currently at 196 8% b/f at 5'7. And as im sure everyone including yourself waited till you were at your FULL genetic point.

[ChefJ]

I don't know if there's a positive correlation between keeping gains and longer/lower dose cycles....

Many things could happen:

You gain 30lbs in 12 weeks, and keep 20 on a high(er) dose cycle...

but maybe you could gain 15 (and keep all of it) on a long/lower dose cycle...then on one hand you keep 100% of your gains...but in actuality you have more net gains by losing 1/3 of them and keeping the 20lbs from the higher dose cycle.

There's alot of possibilities, and one is keeping a high % of gains, but actually having less net gains in the end.

If you think that your way will work (and it's possible...though not highly probable), then give it a go....and tell us your results.

I agree I think that what most people are going for on longer cycles at lower doses is to let there body settle into a higher weight setpoint. Letting the body get used to the higher weight and muscle volume so that it does not try to lose it all once off cycle. Granted this is what PCT is used for but is probable that it would be easier to keep gains on a longer cycle.

[DEVLDOG]

hell if im not at my genetic limit then i have some hell good genetics as i am currently at 196 8% b/f at 5'7. And as im sure everyone including yourself waited till you were at your FULL genetic point.

maybe you do bro and no i didnt wait,i was only 17 but i didnt know any better in 1987.live and learn bro..goodluck

[Jackman]

maybe you do bro and no i didnt wait,i was only 17 but i didnt know any better in 1987.live and learn bro..goodluck

i think i was learning to walk in 1987

[DEVLDOG]

i think i was learning to walk in 1987

smartass

[Knight1811]

i dont understand why people still believe they will keep the gains they achieve from a cycle...it cant be done.if you gain 30 lbs of muscle,it was achieved through having higher then normal test levels,being able to train harder and heavier,being able to recover faster and being able to utilize nutrients more proficiently..when your off your body will try and return to normal(homiostasis)it will burn the muscle for energy because it wont be able to maintain it because your hormone levels have dropped,you arent training as hard as you were(even though you may be trying)...etc.just look at pro bb's who retire,they are not 1/2 the size as when they were on..if you want to get big and stay big,then there is no coming off....depends on your goals,what your willing to do to achieve them

You're kidding right? Where are you getting this information from? From previous PERSONAL experience? Read it somewhere? Heard it somewhere? Where?
I know plenty of examples where people KEEP their gains after finishing a cycle. The AIDS/HIV community utilize AASs to fight off wasting, and after a few cycles they get on a once a year protocol to maintain their newly achieved higher weight. If your argument was correct then the HIV/AIDS community would have to be on AAS 24/7 for 365....which is simply not the case.
As for returning to homeostasis....with proper diet and exercise the body will adjust it's "homeostatic thermometer" and the new adjustment will become homeostasis. Last I checked, homeostasis is adjustable...the body adepts to new stress and sets new levels of homeostasis.

Knight1811

[Stout1]

well if look at my previous statment the 1st one u replied to, i said pct and proper deit will be in check, but thanks for your replys, just wondering on my idea, i heard thats what alot of the older pro's use to do, but thanks for your info

Sorry bro, your diet and training are NOT on if you are losing your gains. You may think that your diet and training are on par but like you said you are losing your gains. So something is wrong, its not the gear b/c you are gaining weight while you are ON but once you come off you lose it. So that leads me to belive either diet and/or training.

[Stout1]

i.just look at pro bb's who retire,they are not 1/2 the size as when they were on..if you want to get big and stay big,then there is no coming off....depends on your goals,what your willing to do to achieve them

Pro BBers are at an extreme difference from us. They push their body to the limits and then some. They do this **** for a living, we for the most part are not putting are selves through that kind of stress and change. If someone puts on 30lbs of muscle compared to 80lbs of muscle then obviously the 30lbs will be easier to keep. So i do agree with you in somepart to the homeostasis idea but not completely. JMO.