What's your take on clen?

**SteveeeO** · 01-05-2005, 08:02 PM

Everyone seems to be mixed about it, just want to hear what you really think about it? I want to start my cut and trying to debate on whether or not to use it

**don anabolico** · 01-05-2005, 08:05 PM

use it, its awsome, im actually using it right now for my pct as i find its anti catabolic properties to be very good.

**SteveeeO** · 01-05-2005, 08:08 PM

I'm just curious as of the longer term sides, there was a study showing it very unsafe and not sure if it was ever cleared up. I definately beleive you it works great

**PurePower** · 01-05-2005, 08:08 PM

IMO clen sucks. Only thing it did for me is make me shake and get headaches. I know some bros that love the stuff though. Only one way to find out.

**don anabolico** · 01-05-2005, 08:11 PM

stevoo, its prescribed for astma, stop being a scared pudy cat, lol

**gixxer600** · 01-05-2005, 08:28 PM

I'm using it right now during my pct. Actually, I'm almost done my pct but will be using it for a little while to try to shed some BF before my next cycle in March. (I can't hardly wait I might add!) Works really well if used properly. Some shakes, very mild headaches but overall, very good. Just read the clen handbook it pretty much sums it all up there.
Cheers

**Consistency** · 01-05-2005, 11:44 PM

ive tried it, i dont think it worked well for me, i had to go up to 220mcg ED and all i got was shakes, twitches, and kept me outta breath all the time which hurt my cardio... from now on ill just run 100mg of ephedrine ED

**groundandpoundpwr21** · 01-05-2005, 11:46 PM

Can do some heart damage if you take to much to long.

***SV-1*** · 01-06-2005, 12:15 AM

Pure EVIL.

**Latimus** · 01-06-2005, 01:48 AM

the shakes are ****ed up...

**Whitey** · 01-06-2005, 01:54 AM

My advice is if you're going to use it, start VERY small. You never know how you will react until it's in you.

Also, if your blood pressure is high, the headaches can be nasty.

Finally, never - absolutely never use clen and cialis at the same time. A friend of mine did, and thought his head was going to explode.

(The one upstairs, not downstairs, that is

)

Personally, I thought the shakes were kind of cool.

**SteveeeO** · 01-06-2005, 06:56 AM

alright well I'm gonna run it for 2 weeks on and off, ECY on off weeks. Starting out with 40mcg

**JdFlex** · 01-06-2005, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Whitey

Finally, never - absolutely never use clen and cialis at the same time. A friend of mine did, and thought his head was going to explode.

(The one upstairs, not downstairs, that is

)

What are you talking about? I've combined them with no problems many times.

**justincredible** · 01-06-2005, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by JdJuicer

What are you talking about? I've combined them with no problems many times.

This needs to be cleared up!! I'm gonna start running clen with the last few weeks of my cycle, and thru pct. I'm a big fan of cialis, and if I hadn't read this post, I'd have combined the two without a doubt. So we've got one guy saying "ABSOLUTLEY NOT" and one guy saying "I've never had any problems". SO...anyone else got some input on this or any MEDICAL DATA TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIM (S)? I'm pretty f*ckin interested.

***xxx*** · 01-06-2005, 07:38 AM

clen is just a ****ed up drug.

read this for further information:

Myotoxic effects of clenbuterol in the rat heart and soleus muscle

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/5/1824

another thing I have found is this:

The anabolic effects of clenbuterol have been recognized for a long time. Clenbuterol augments the expression of specific muscle proteins with a differential effect on type I and type II fibres. Furthermore, clenbuterol induces the synthesis of endogenous nerve growth factor (NGF) and may itself be a myotrophic factor released by neuron endings. Side effects inclde tremor and headache and dose dependent abnormalities of labaratory values (hypokalemia, hypoglycemia). After long-term medication increasing fatigue of muscles has been observed. Decreased expression of b2-adrenergic receptors may limit the expected functional improvement. The efficacy of clenbuterol as symptomatic treatment of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis has not been proved. Controlled treatment trials are warranted to assess this question.

**justincredible** · 01-06-2005, 08:31 AM

That's a good informative read, but I need to bump this for info on the running clen with cialis issue...Anyone?

**Carguy** · 01-06-2005, 08:53 AM

Clen is like anything else, when used correctly and in moderation, its a safe effective drug. You can shred down VERY quickly if you take it right.

Headaches- nothing an advil cant fix. (they go away after the 1st 5 days anyway)
Shakes- Theres always some side effect to a fatburner. I get worse shakes from ephedrine honestly.

**Whitey** · 01-06-2005, 01:29 PM

After doing some research, I have found no documented interactions between taldafil and clenbuterol . Armed with a basic understanding of the two compounds, I don't really have major concerns with the way the compounds might together act on the body, but of course, I am not a scientist/pharmacologist.

I will make a couple points. First, it is well documented that the most common side effect of cialis is headaches. In clinical studies, 10-15% of users experience headaches. The exact mechanism of the cause of the headaches is not explained. http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2003/021368ppilbl.pdf It is common knowledge on this board that many clenbuterol users experience headaches also, ranging from mild to severe. It is possible that the two drugs can combine synergistically to produce a more powerful headache, even if the headaches are caused by completely different mechanisms. So, if an individual is in the 10-15% that experience cialis headaches and they are also prone to severe clen headaches, they may experience an explosive headache, not even able to leave the house for two days, like my buddy. Or, if the individual is like juicer, maybe they experience nothing at all. And since everybody is different, I will definitely retract my above statement to ABSOLUTELY avoid the combination of the 2 drugs. Of course, if you talk to my bro, and let him describe these headaches to you, he will probably be able to convince you that clen + cialis =

! But again, as JdJuicer commented, this is not true for everyone.

My best advice is then not to avoid these 2 compounds, but just be warned that there could be adverse sides when used in combination. What I would do personally is pay attention to my body while using the compounds individually. If one or both of the compounds cause headaches, especially moderate or severe headaches, I'd think twice before using them together. Just my .02, bros.

**SteveeeO** · 01-06-2005, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by ***xxx***

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/5/1824

this study is scary

**Whitey** · 01-06-2005, 03:23 PM

most studies are, lol!

**Whitey** · 01-21-2005, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by justincredible

That's a good informative read, but I need to bump this for info on the running clen with cialis issue...Anyone?

Just ran across this thread at another board that mentions this issue, thought I'd bump this up for you, J.

http://www.intense-training.com/foru...ad.php?t=17718

**Big_Lex** · 01-21-2005, 06:03 AM

i had lots of clen (3 bottles of ventipullmen or something like that) for my PCT. Recently read some bad stuff on it in MD and now here on the boards.
Guess where its sitting? in my trash down stairs. I wont even sell it to my friends.I have no exp with slin but after some research ill shoot slin in the morning rather for anti-catabolic reasons.As for fat well ECA and inj yohimibine will do just fine.
Loved Clen scared of it now

**JdFlex** · 01-21-2005, 08:18 AM

My heart races too fast while on clen . That can't be healthy. I have 1.5 bottles and I think I'm gonna toss them. I don't think its wise to screw around with the heart like that. I just don't think its worth any health risks.

**paulastone** · 01-21-2005, 11:07 AM

Well to everyone that wants to trash they're clen ! send it to me, i love the stuff so does my wife. Remember, use dont abuse and you will be fine.
Now send it to me

**Whitey** · 01-21-2005, 11:25 AM

I'm a clen lightweight... 60mcg gets me CRUNKED up.

In my experience, I like clen a lot better than ECA. I don't feel so hot while I'm on it, and I experience absolutely no crash when I come off. I remember when I came off my first ephedrine cycle, I lay on the couch for an entire weekend, too tired to f**king move. That was horrible.

What I don't like about clen is the jitteriness. On ECA, there was a different kind of jitteriness, like a focused kind of energy. With clen, I feel a more uncontrollable, loose kind of shakiness that I don't like. This may be different from person to person. Also the heart racing at night is a pain in the ass.

**Vegas67** · 01-21-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Carguy

Clen is like anything else, when used correctly and in moderation, its a safe effective drug. You can shred down VERY quickly if you take it right.

Headaches- nothing an advil cant fix. (they go away after the 1st 5 days anyway)
Shakes- Theres always some side effect to a fatburner. I get worse shakes from ephedrine honestly.

Agreed. I have had good success 1 week on clen 1 week on ECA ...Anything more than 2 weeks I just got used to it and had to use more and more until I was 160 mcg/day + which IMO is a bit much for your health.

chinups · 01-21-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by SteveeeO

this study is scary

Just be sure to not give it to your rat and you should be fine

**Sta11ion** · 01-21-2005, 12:04 PM

ECA stack has more side effects then clen , Eca has such a discomfort while taking it that its impossible to take longer then 3 days.

**bonanza1** · 01-21-2005, 12:22 PM

I am prone to migraines, I used clen 40mcg / day 1 week on 1 off. It worked great for me & No Headaches. I was a little jittery, but was willing to put up with it...cause it works great. Everyone to the own.

**Whitey** · 01-21-2005, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vegas67

Agreed. I have had good success 1 week on clen 1 week on ECA ...Anything more than 2 weeks I just got used to it and had to use more and more until I was 160 mcg/day + which IMO is a bit much for your health.

Well, ECA and clen affect the same receptors, so your tolerance will continue to build on that cycle. You can take an antihistimine to help with that.

**cardiodan** · 01-21-2005, 03:19 PM

Guys cmon, you guys have to do some research before you try the clen , whether you are skeptical about it or not. I read some posts and replies in this very thread, and it some say: Oh yes it affected my breathing through cardio. This is exactly why youre not supposed to take clen before cardio.
I take 100mcgs no more no less, I get slight shakes. I do cardio 5x a week, weight training 4 x a week, cardio first thing in the morning. After initial water loss through diet (which was without clen) I decided to start the clen. Since then, its been 5 days. Ive lost 4.4 lbs on it. This stuff works.
I havent gotten one headache, and one cramp. Im smart, I do the research, and dont abuse it. I keep healthy by doing cardio, weights, and keeping my cardiovascular system healthy by not smoking and other factors. I also realize its not a miracle drug, yet it raises metabolism by 10% and has anticatabolic properties, versus 3% of ECA.
ECA will make you paranoid and more energized than 100mcgs of clen will IMO, as beta 2 antagonists dont have the same stimulatory effects as other stimulants like ephedra does. (Hooker told me this, authority on clen).
Your decision.
I dont know, ut you know many things are unhealthy. When you take a risk, do a pros and cons list, and see if its worth it to you, and do the research. Look up threads by hooker. Also, with clen, START SMALL AND RAMP UP!

**cardiodan** · 01-21-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Whitey

Well, ECA and clen affect the same receptors, so your tolerance will continue to build on that cycle. You can take an antihistimine to help with that.

Not really.
ECA , if you dont have a tolerance, just try popping a dozen.
Now pop 400mcgs clen . (Ive done it before by dosing accident, I was new).

Theres a big difference. Hooker himself can back me up.

**cardiodan** · 01-21-2005, 03:24 PM

From a PM I sent HOOKER:

Originally Posted by Hooker

NO. It isn't underdosed. Beta-2 receptors don't stimulate you too much....its the overflow into other receptors...and clen doesn't have much of that, unlike ephedrine.

**jgg1221** · 01-21-2005, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by cardiodan

Guys cmon, you guys have to do some research before you try the clen , whether you are skeptical about it or not. I read some posts and replies in this very thread, and it some say: Oh yes it affected my breathing through cardio. This is exactly why youre not supposed to take clen before cardio.
I take 100mcgs no more no less, I get slight shakes. I do cardio 5x a week, weight training 4 x a week, cardio first thing in the morning. After initial water loss through diet (which was without clen) I decided to start the clen. Since then, its been 5 days. Ive lost 4.4 lbs on it. This stuff works.
I havent gotten one headache, and one cramp. Im smart, I do the research, and dont abuse it. I keep healthy by doing cardio, weights, and keeping my cardiovascular system healthy by not smoking and other factors. I also realize its not a miracle drug, yet it raises metabolism by 10% and has anticatabolic properties, versus 3% of ECA.
ECA will make you paranoid and more energized than 100mcgs of clen will IMO, as beta 2 antagonists dont have the same stimulatory effects as other stimulants like ephedra does. (Hooker told me this, authority on clen).
Your decision.
I dont know, ut you know many things are unhealthy. When you take a risk, do a pros and cons list, and see if its worth it to you, and do the research. Look up threads by hooker. Also, with clen, START SMALL AND RAMP UP!

everybodies different man... just cuz someone doesnt react to well to it doesnt mean they didnt do their homework

i did my HW on it and found that the jitters were unbearable

id rather lose weight naturally

**cardiodan** · 01-21-2005, 03:39 PM

I totally agree. But then again, my post was just so we dont join in on clen bashing, you know?
Shakes IMO are concealable, and kinda cool.
If you dont like it, dont take it. Cool with me. I think its a really nice supplement to boost the fat loss.
Same thing with working out? Dont like to sweat? Dont workout!
Same thing with test! Dont like chemical testosterone increases? Go natural!
Everything has its benefits and sacrifices. Clen shouldnt be one of them.
Thats only if you want to take it to the next level.
Cardio and diet is cool if you want to rip up. **** eca. Its mostly placebo.

If your diet and cardio isnt in check, you wont lose **** with clen.
Ever see that post, recently posted, by this poster doing clen for 2 weeks, saying he didnt workout, but had his diet to an "ALRIGHT LEVEL?" WTF?
Hes like if i had had the CHANCE to workout, then i couldve lost something. I didnt lose anything.

If youre not willing to go into hardcore drugs, dont do them. For some i guess its just not worth it. I havent popped my cherry yet. Im still researching. And Im still unsure about it, so im not ready for that yet. I just research. Once Im done with that, I make **** sure I do it right, and if im doing it half ass, id rather go find another hobby.

**Whitey** · 01-21-2005, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by cardiodan

Originally Posted by Whitey

Well, ECA and clen affect the same receptors, so your tolerance will continue to build on that cycle. You can take an antihistimine to help with that.

Not really.
ECA , if you dont have a tolerance, just try popping a dozen.
Now pop 400mcgs clen . (Ive done it before by dosing accident, I was new).

Theres a big difference. Hooker himself can back me up.

No problem, brother - you are entitled to your opinion. Here's the Big Man's opinion, if you're interested: clenbuterol

Originally Posted by hooker

Not that they aren't a good combo (ECA + Clen), but just that if you run clen in the 2on/2off fashion (which you shouldn't), you shouldn't use ECA in the off weeks, because your beta-2 receptors will never recover...

**Whitey** · 01-21-2005, 05:23 PM

It sounds to me like he implies here that ECA and clen DO affect the same receptors (the beta-2 receptors, in fact). And if you cycle between ECA and clen, your receptors will NOT recover, and therefore your tolerance will continue to build, and the cycle will be less effective. That's just what it sounds like to me. Maybe you can help me understand this.

**Whitey** · 01-24-2005, 11:04 PM

Bump for cardiodan.

**cardiodan** · 01-25-2005, 02:36 PM

Im no guru, im just learning, but I do know a good bit. Here goes:
Ephedrine and caffeine act in a synergistic manner. They work together. The two we are most concerned with are the release of nor-epinephrine, and the stimulation of beta-2-androgenic receptors.
Clenbuterol is specifically a selective beta-2 sympathomimetic, primarily affecting only one of the three subsets of beta-receptors.

Because Clenbuterol has little beta-1 stimulating it reduces reversible airway with much less cardiovascular side effects compared to nonselective beta agonists. That is why you can take large doses of clen (200mcgs) and still have your heart rate at an acceptable pace for losing fat safely and effectively without overstressing IMO. Ephedra, on the other hand, you take a few extra pills and your heart rate will soon soar, unless youre nonresponsive due to tolerance and you pop them like theres no tomorrow.

Since it does not affect all beta receptors, it does not give you that extreme wired feeling a moderate/high dosage of eca would.
I, for example , made a mistake of dosing with my oral syringe 400mcgs of arr clen in one dose at once, thinking it was 40mcgs. I was in a rush, and had to do it quick, and did not make proper calculations. Needless to say, I was shaking a lot. My heart was at 150. But I felt fine! I slept fine. I was not wired. I shook, yes. alot. Its a big overdosage and this is an extreme case, but try taking 400mgs of ephedra or eca. I just hope you have a tolerance, as you will be on crack for sure.
Now, Im taking 140mcgs of clen, I upped it from 100 mcgs. I feel fine, and jitters are so second nature I just dont even know they are there. I cant use it to wake up any more, as it does not wire me at all, although it does give me a slight energy boost.
Nothing like caffeine or ephedra.
I hope this clears it up.
I lose more than 2lbs a week. Last week it was 4lbs