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  1. #1
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    I knew it all along! (low test)

    So my blood work finally came in and test was at 380! The doctor said it was too high for him to prescribe anything, wtf? How should I deal with this problem? I'm only 19 years old and this is greatly effecting my life... I heard they prescribe people with Test Cyp and inject 250mg/ every 3rd week, is that about right?

  2. #2
    GQplaya is offline Associate Member
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    why is it low, have u done any cycles. or is it normal?

  3. #3
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    no cycles or anything in the past, I guess it is natural. He said that it was too high of a level for him to prescribe me anything, but it is mid-low levels.

    So it looks like I might have to take matters in my own hands? I don't want to do this unsafely, just want to restore it back to the normal levels for my age (800-900)

  4. #4
    thegodfather's Avatar
    thegodfather is offline Dulce bellum inexpertis
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    What symptoms are you running into from the low test levels. If you are having difficulties then your doctor should help you, how bout a 2nd opinion?

  5. #5
    ChefJ's Avatar
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    It is normally inections of 100mg per week.

  6. #6
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather
    What symptoms are you running into from the low test levels. If you are having difficulties then your doctor should help you, how bout a 2nd opinion?
    Excellent point. Remember...half of all the doctors out there graduated in the lower half of their class. Always get a second opinion and remember, despite the god complex most of them have, they work for you!
    Last edited by toolman; 01-06-2005 at 09:55 PM.

  7. #7
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    Escellent point. Remember...half of all the doctors out there graduated in the lower half of their class. Always get a second opinion and remember, despite the god complex most of them have, they work for you!
    Absolutely agree, get another opinion. What symptoms are you having ?

  8. #8
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    I will definately look into a second opinion.

    The sides I was having is fatigue, minimal sex drive, lack of strength, moodiness, and just recently started forming a gut?

    From my understanding though, the people that are baseline they don't want to prescribe anything because it could lead to future problems... but, I view this as completely wrong because body builders should be raging with testestorone from all the weight lifting, so they should be elevated a little higher than your average everyday male

    When they do injections, do I have to go through that every week for the rest of my life? I really want to avoid the gel and patches (this is what they prescribe to most people)

  9. #9
    thegodfather's Avatar
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    How long have you been experiencing these side effects for? If you're baseline maybe there is something they can put you on sort of like a PCT to help jump start your natural production... Might want to look into that before you start sticking, because if you're test levels are already suppressed, then having synthetic test in your body will shutdown what little existing test you have and it will probably be hard to ever get your production started again if it's already low...

  10. #10
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    I have had these problems since puberty (~15) and am 1 month shy of 20 right now. I have been taking ZMA, tribulus, and even maintaining a high level of saturated fat intake

  11. #11
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather
    How long have you been experiencing these side effects for? If you're baseline maybe there is something they can put you on sort of like a PCT to help jump start your natural production... Might want to look into that before you start sticking, because if you're test levels are already suppressed, then having synthetic test in your body will shutdown what little existing test you have and it will probably be hard to ever get your production started again if it's already low...
    Actualy thats a good point, there are a couple of natural products you can but that can help boodt test levels. I would definitly get some Tongkat Ali, You can get them on the web or some health food stores. I would give that a try before I resorted to test injections.

  12. #12
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    380 is not that low. Thats actually avg. Low is like 270 and under.
    100mgs each week of test E or test C will be enough. Personally,
    at 19, I would not recommend trying HRT at that age. You have to be
    on HRT for life..

    Your statement:
    The sides I was having is fatigue, minimal sex drive, lack of strength,
    moodiness, and just recently started forming a gut?

    This could be related to many other problems such as being
    overworked, overmedicated, lack of exercise, depression, etc.

    Perhaps an evaluation from another dr that knows his shizzle
    would be beneficial. Good luck bro.
    ... ~dow
    Last edited by dogsofwar; 01-06-2005 at 10:16 PM.

  13. #13
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    tongkat is a little pricey and I haven't seen any studies out there that actually prove it's effectiveness

  14. #14
    thegodfather's Avatar
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    I'm sure its gotta be furstrating for you being so young with that problem...I'm sure its on your mind a good portion of the day as well. Why not try the supplements and see how it goes, you might even get a good placebo effect from it, as you may not be obsessing about your problem as much...

  15. #15
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsofwar
    380 is not that low. Thats actually avg. Low is like 270 and under.
    100mgs each week of test E or test C will be enough. Personally,
    at 19, I would not recommend trying HRT at that age. You have to be
    on HRT for life..... ~dow
    I don't have a problem with being on HRT for the rest of my life if it makes me feel better. How would you feel in situations where you can go out and party with your buds, but physically you just can't handle it because all you want to do is go lay in your bed? I'm not a lazy person by any means, I stay in great cardiovascular shape and try to stay as active as I can.

    for clerification: average for my age group was ~800 according to the doctor. He said I fell in the mid-low range, and people in this range he really can't work with

  16. #16
    dogsofwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    I don't have a problem with being on HRT for the rest of my life if it makes me feel better. How would you feel in situations where you can go out and party with your buds, but physically you just can't handle it because all you want to do is go lay in your bed? I'm not a lazy person by any means, I stay in great cardiovascular shape and try to stay as active as I can.

    for clerification: average for my age group was ~800 according to the doctor. He said I fell in the mid-low range, and people in this range he really can't work with
    I edited my statement above. 800 in free is on the VERY high side. I am on the bottom end of the "normal" scale at 274 and undergoing lifelong HRT. Again, check the other potential things I spoke about. Laters.

  17. #17
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsofwar
    This could be related to many other problems such as being
    overworked, overmedicated, lack of exercise, depression, etc.
    Overworked? Not at all.. I have taken a month off from work, and basically stopped working out for a couple weeks and had the exact same symptoms, if anything they worsened.

    Overmedicated? I really don't understand this, but I do not take any medications of any sort.

    Lack of exercise? Obviously a no.

    Depression? Who knows..

  18. #18
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsofwar
    I edited my statement above. 800 in free is on the VERY high side. I am on the bottom end of the "normal" scale at 274 and undergoing lifelong HRT. Again, check the other potential things I spoke about. Laters.
    Maybe I had a misunderstanding from the doctor, but from the baseline he gave me

    1000 was very high, 800 was high, 600-700 average, 500 mid, 300- low

  19. #19
    dogsofwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    Overworked? Not at all.. I have taken a month off from work, and basically stopped working out for a couple weeks and had the exact same symptoms, if anything they worsened.

    Overmedicated? I really don't understand this, but I do not take any medications of any sort.

    Lack of exercise? Obviously a no.

    Depression? Who knows..
    Just trying to help bro. You shouldn't be having that drastic
    of side effects from 380.

  20. #20
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    I see your point, but obviously something is effecting me and this has been the most closely related one.

  21. #21
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    I see your point, but obviously something is effecting me and this has been the most closely related one.
    Go and see an Endocrinologist (sp?) This is there turf, they will know what to look for that might be causing your problem. GP's dont know sh!t about this stuff .

  22. #22
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanw
    Go and see an Endocrinologist (sp?) This is there turf, they will know what to look for that might be causing your problem. GP's dont know sh!t about this stuff .
    ahhhhhh just throwing more money in their bank account for these **** 6 digit doctors

  23. #23
    thegodfather's Avatar
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    I agree, as stated earlier the second opinion is defintely needed here, and going to a specialist is defintely your best bet...

  24. #24
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    ahhhhhh just throwing more money in their bank account for these **** 6 digit doctors
    Well if I was you I would be using all avenues to find out what the problem is !!!

  25. #25
    thegodfather's Avatar
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    Dont be cheap with your health bro....all of us here just wanna see you do the smartest thing for yourself and try to help...

  26. #26
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    Drummerboy is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanw
    Go and see an Endocrinologist (sp?) This is there turf, they will know what to look for that might be causing your problem. GP's dont know sh!t about this stuff .
    I agree. Go see an endo specialist

  27. #27
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanw
    Well if I was you I would be using all avenues to find out what the problem is !!!
    It's a little hard to dish out the money when you do hear the news that your test is relatively low. Seriously, what else could it be other than test levels? I agree it would be the smart thing to do, but at the same time I don't want to be out $500 to hear that "Yeah, that's the problem"

  28. #28
    littleguns is offline Associate Member
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    yah dude. Get a hookup from the gym and get some test. I just started a cycle with some test E and i have had ragining boners all day and its only 2 weeks in to my 14 weeker.

  29. #29
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    It's a little hard to dish out the money when you do hear the news that your test is relatively low. Seriously, what else could it be other than test levels? I agree it would be the smart thing to do, but at the same time I don't want to be out $500 to hear that "Yeah, that's the problem"
    OK, well I give up !

  30. #30
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by littleguns
    yah dude. Get a hookup from the gym and get some test. I just started a cycle with some test E and i have had ragining boners all day and its only 2 weeks in to my 14 weeker.
    I'm not in it for getting the boners all day, I want normal levels to maintain a healthy lifestyle is all.

    also I could swear that test takes 4 weeks to kick in, so I think that's all in your mind
    Last edited by SteveeeO; 01-06-2005 at 10:53 PM.

  31. #31
    SteveeeO is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanw
    OK, well I give up !
    I really understand your point and respect it, but it's hard when money is tight and you got a grasp on what the problem is. Now I guess it's just time for a second opinion and see how everything works out I guess

  32. #32
    seanw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    I really understand your point and respect it, but it's hard when money is tight and you got a grasp on what the problem is. Now I guess it's just time for a second opinion and see how everything works out I guess
    Mate I know it must be frustrating for you, but fuk, if I was 20 and I had these problems I would not be leaving any stone unturned. This could affect the rest of your life and even if money is tight, $500 bucks to get this sorted isnt a lot in the scheme of things. The Endo's are a lot more knowledgable about this stuff belive me.

  33. #33
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    Testosterone production begins in the brain. When the hypothalamus detects a deficiency of testosterone in the blood, it secretes a hormone called gonadotrophin-releasing hormone to the pituitary gland. This prompts the pituitary to secrete luteinizing hormone (LH), which then prompts the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone.

    In some men, the testes lose their ability to produce testosterone, no matter how much LH is being produced. This type of testosterone deficiency is diagnosed when blood tests show high levels of LH and low levels of testosterone . In other words, the pituitary gland is telling the testes (by secreting LH) to produce testosterone, but the testes have lost their functional ability. So the pituitary gland vainly continues to secrete LH because there is not enough tes-tosterone in the blood to provide a feedback mechanism that would tell the pituitary to shut down. In other cases, the hypothalamus, or pituitary gland, fails to produce sufficient amounts of LH, thus preventing healthy testes from secreting testosterone. Blood testing can determine whether sufficient amounts of LH are being secreted by the pituitary gland and help determine the appropriate therapeutic approach. If serum (blood) testosterone levels are very low, it is important to diagnose the cause, but no matter what the underlying problem, therapies exist today to safely restore testosterone levels.

    You cant be sure what the problem is until it is diagnosed. My thinking is that your test levels are the least of your problems.... Sopmething is causing this to be at a abnormal level.. Don't be ignorant about the fact that your health is in jeopardy... Find out what the root of the problem is. Go find a specialist..

  34. #34
    Hed
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    How do you get a blood test done? Do i just go to any dr. office and ask? Im at school right now, and i can ask my health center for a good one, and i have insurance that covers absolutely everything, so ill be fine there.........

    whats a blood test entail? do i ask for a test only one?

  35. #35
    seanw's Avatar
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    This what you can have done with the ranges included

    Someone on here posted this a while back and I saved it.

    Now on with the Referance ranges - BTW, these are from Quest Diagnostics (biggest lab network in the US):

    CBC with Differential and Platelet
    White Blood Cell count: 3.8 - 10.8 Thous/mcL
    Red Blood Cell count: 4.2 - 5.8 Mill/mcl
    Hemoglobin: 13.2 - 17.1 g/dL
    Hematocrit: 38.5 - 50.0%
    MCV: 80 - 100 fL
    MCH: 27 - 33 pg
    MCHC: 32 - 36 g/dL
    RDW: 11 - 15%
    Platelet Count: 140 - 400 Thous/mcL
    MPV: 7.5 - 11.5 fL
    Neutrophils, Absolute: 1500 - 7800 Cells/mcL
    Lymphocytes, Absolute: 850 - 3900 Cells/mcL
    Monocytes, Absolute: 200 - 950 Cells/mcL
    Eosinophils, Absolute: 15 - 500 Cells/mcL
    Basophils, Absolute: 0 - 200 Cells/mcL

    Glucose, non-fasting: 65 - 125 mg/dL
    Glucose, fasting: 65 - 109 mg/dL

    Automated Chemistries
    Urea Nitrogen: 7 -25 mg/dL
    Creatinine: 0.5 - 1.4 mg/dL
    BUN/Creatinine: 6 - 25
    Sodium: 135 - 146 mmol/L
    Potassium: 3.5 - 5.3 mmol/L
    Chloride: 98 - 110 mmol/L
    Carbon Dioxide: 21 - 33 mmol/L
    Calcium: 8.5 - 10.4 mg/dL
    Phosphorus: 2.5 - 4.5 mg/dL
    Alkaline Phosphatase: 20 -125 U/L
    Liver enzyme, AST: 2 - 50 U/L
    Liver enzyme, ALT: 2 - 60 U/L
    Bilirubin, Total: 0.2 - 1.5 mg/dL
    Bilirubin, Direct: 0.0 - 0.3 mg/dL
    Protein, Total: 6.9 - 8.3 g/dL
    Albumin: 3.7 - 5.1 g/dL
    Globulin, Calculated: 2.2 - 4.2 g/dL
    A/G ratio: 0.8 - 2.0
    LD: 100 - 250 U/L
    Uric Acid: 2.7 - 8.2 mg/dL
    GGT: 2 - 80 U/L
    Cholesterol, Total: < 200 mg/dL
    Triglycerides: < 150 mg/dL
    Iron: 40 - 190 ug/dL

    Thyroid Panel
    T3, Total: 60 - 181 ng/dL
    T4, Free: 0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL
    T4, Total: 4.5 - 12.8 ug/dL
    TSH: 0.4 - 5.5 mIU/L

    Homocysteine (Cardio) , FPIA
    Homocysteine: < 11.4 MICROmol/L

    PSA - Prostate Specific Antigen
    PSA, Total: < 4.1 ng/mL
    PSA, Free and Free %: See ref. scale below
    Reference scale:
    PSA, 0 - 2 ng/mL = approx. 1% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 2 - 4 ng/mL = approx. 15% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 4.1 - 10 ng/mL & Free 0-10% = approx. 56% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 4.1 - 10 ng/mL & Free 11-15% = approx. 28% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 4.1 - 10 ng/mL & Free 16-20% = approx. 20% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 4.1 - 10 ng/mL & Free 21-25% = approx. 16% Probability of Cancer
    PSA, 4.1 - 10 ng/mL & Free > 26% = approx. 8% Probability of Cancer
    PSA > 10 = > 50% Probability of Cancer

    Testosterone , LH & Estradiol
    Testosterone, Total: 260 - 1000 ng/dL
    Testosterone, Free: 50 - 210 pg/mL
    Testosterone, Free %: 1.0 - 2.7%
    Estradiol: < 32 pg/mL
    LH: 1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL

  36. #36
    Maetenloch's Avatar
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    SteveeeO, did your doctor do a full blood workup? Thyroid deficiency can have similar symptoms.

  37. #37
    IronRuffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maetenloch
    SteveeeO, did your doctor do a full blood workup? Thyroid deficiency can have similar symptoms.
    So can high cholesterol.... but there could be a 100 differen't reasons...

  38. #38
    IRONATE is offline New Member
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    Ask Waht Your Free And Bound Levels Are,that Can Make All The Difference In The World.i Do My Own Shots To As Well And I Take 200wk.

  39. #39
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    u said u developed a gut, with raising weight or with the same weight? u r only 19 I would never recommend hrt with 19. your testlevels may still adjust, cause your body and your endocrine system is still developing and growing. your doctor may be right to not give u hrt right now. if you still have the symptoms in a few years, then it may be necessary to take action.
    I would first get a second opinion (it sux that u have to pay for it, in Germany this basic health care is free and if u can t afford insurance, gov. will insure u) and then try some of that natural stuff.

    btw i feel like u all the time just got blood drained yesterday so I see in a couple of days whats up with me.
    dogsofwar is right. those probs could be connected to many, many problems...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveeeO
    I really understand your point and respect it, but it's hard when money is tight and you got a grasp on what the problem is. Now I guess it's just time for a second opinion and see how everything works out I guess
    If you have a grasp on what the problem is then why bother going to the doctor in the first place, save us some time. You are obviously a skilled diagnostician, considering the differential diagnosis for "fatigue" is about a mile long and you were able to narrow it down to low test levels before even seeing a doctor.

    I've never seen anyone symptomatic from test levels in the 300 range.

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