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  1. #1
    NJou812's Avatar
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    Question Clen and the heart

    Hey,
    I have read some studies recently that show even low doses of Clen can KILL heart cells (and increase collegen in the heart). As well, I heard clen can lead to heart murmers and irregular heat beat.

    So, I'm in PCT for a cycle and I wanted to use clen to help me keep my cals high without the fat jumping on board (anti-catabolic properties help too). I can handle the temporary sides from Clen, but am worried about the long term effect on my heart.

    Is a cycle of Clen gonna end up cutting years off my life ? (obviously no one can say for sure, I just want to get a feel for what y'all think of the risks of clen)

  2. #2
    DEVLDOG's Avatar
    DEVLDOG is offline Retired VET
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    its a personal decision only you can make,i have used it many,many times.and so far im still ticking but who knows what tomorrow will bring..goodluck bro

  3. #3
    bignatt's Avatar
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    I have used it but i wont any longer cause of studies i have seen im sure its not that bad though

  4. #4
    NJou812's Avatar
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    thx for opinion guys....anyone else have an opinion on the risks of clen

  5. #5
    NJou812's Avatar
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    Bump - who likes clen , who doesn't (and why)........

  6. #6
    daaaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJou812
    thx for opinion guys....anyone else have an opinion on the risks of clen
    this study isn't new. that's why i never tried it and never will.

    clen kills heart and spinal cord cells. it's not worth the risk.

  7. #7
    tallyjuice's Avatar
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    ****. i really love it. so i hope it's not true

  8. #8
    Jantzen4k's Avatar
    Jantzen4k is offline Anabolic Nittany Lion
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    i heard that somewhere too, i think its cause clen is for ashma patients

  9. #9
    statuZ's Avatar
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    i read one of those studies when i was a little more than 7 days into my cycle and i stopped, no drug is worth ****ing with your heart like the clen studies have shown me, even though if its over exagurated, its one of the organs im not ****ing with!

  10. #10
    powerlifter's Avatar
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    Here is a recent article on Clen and Myocardial apotosis posted by Liftsiron at AtomicalMuscle.com


    Here is a recent study that suggests that clenbuterol use at doses we bodybuilders use may cause heart and muscle cell death.


    clenbuterol and apoptosis


    J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


    {beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

    Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

    Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

    High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

  11. #11
    groverman1's Avatar
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    Wow I guess like all things in life...is it worth the risk too you???

  12. #12
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    Clenbuterol used only once

    Hi

    I was jusdt wondering before I start clen (Which will be after my first cycle of AAS), I have just read what you have posted and am now a little bit against it. Thing is, I just bought some and its not cheap so dont want to waste it now - maybe thats wot some will call stupid risking my life to not waste cash. But, my question is, will use of it just this one period really cause me any problems in the long term ??

    thanks

    Darren

  13. #13
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Clen would not even be used if it was legal. I think clen is just appealing because it is illegal. The risk vs reward is just to great IMO.

  14. #14
    Big_Lex is offline Associate Member
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    the good thing is you dont really use clen for too long. i always used it for about 3 weeks in PCT. Gonna think about it this time though

  15. #15
    Big_Lex is offline Associate Member
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    also as far as i know most cells in the body regenerate except brain cells. Is the damage to the heart permanent? dammn i also bought lots of clen for my pct

  16. #16
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    ECA instead!

    Clen does not seem worth it anymore fuk it ECA stack here I come!

  17. #17
    Big_Lex is offline Associate Member
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    ECA vs Clen as anticatabolic? scale 0 - 10?

  18. #18
    cardiodan's Avatar
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    I am taking it and am third day into it.
    Look, ever been a smoker? A drinker? Stress problem?
    All these **** with some organ and are bad for you . Clen can last two weeks if you want it too, or a max of 6 weeks if you take benadryl to refresh receptors. IMO, it's worth the results Im gonna get, as I got my cardio and diet dialed in. I just use it as a supplement.
    Ill just do plenty of cardio to keep my cardiovascular system healthy and in shape, when off or on clen (i do em both), keep healthy, not smoke, not overstress when possible, live life to the fullest and hey take the **** clen.

  19. #19
    NJou812's Avatar
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    good replies......

  20. #20
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    I'm going to take tis article to my doctor and see what he has to say about it. He is very liberal, and is a straight shooter.

  21. #21
    305GUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifter
    Here is a recent article on Clen and Myocardial apotosis posted by Liftsiron at AtomicalMuscle.com


    Here is a recent study that suggests that clenbuterol use at doses we bodybuilders use may cause heart and muscle cell death.


    clenbuterol and apoptosis


    J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


    {beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

    Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

    Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

    High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
    Interesting. I did not know this.

  22. #22
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    bump... more info anyone?

  23. #23
    oldman's Avatar
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    This was interesting read. I know I just started Clen 4 days ago and after yesterdays dose my heart felt like it was going to explode. Now I know this is what clen does but after reading the article I wonder if the damage is done that quickly. Maybe T3 and ECA would be better? I can live with my thyroid being fvck'd but not my heart.

    Thoughts?


    Oldman

  24. #24
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    my thoughts are that clen has been used for ages and ppl who have used it seem to be fine - BUT that only tells so much.. I am worried about possible heart problems associated with clen and really starting to reconsider its usage..

  25. #25
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    I just got off two weeks of clen . Bad sides at first--I was worried about the heart thing too, when on the fourth day my heart felt like it was going to jump out of my chest. But, as was said, if it's only run for 2 weeks, it won't kill you. I loved the results! I'll use it again.

  26. #26
    G-Force's Avatar
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    so do we know if these heart probs are permanent - someone suggested earlier that the heart can regenerate - is this true

    also are there any preventitive measures we could take to minimise heart risk when on clen

    a few things come to mind such as folic acid for the heart, vit e for cardiovascular sytem - surely these would these be beneficial (although i do not know to what degree? or what doses to use?) and are there any others to add to the list??

  27. #27
    oldman's Avatar
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    I like to know if there is more info on this too from some of the "vets" in this game. I am sure it is not great for your heart but is it as bad as I am thinking now?

    Oldman

  28. #28
    MuckDog's Avatar
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    i took it once....and only once. the bottle has not been touched since my first dose last week which was a very small one - - - very small. didnt like the palpatations or the light headedness - which only lasted for a couple of hours but none the less its something i avoid at all costs. it basically showed me once again that more hard work will do the job just fine...along with the help of my friends test e and var of course

  29. #29
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    bump

  30. #30
    theshiz777 is offline Junior Member
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    clen = bad for the body. up to you 2 decide. Personally I would stay away after 1-3 cycles of it. If you ever had a heart condition I would def stay away. Might want to look into Albuterol(think thats how its spelled) Ive been doing some reading on it, its basically and alternative to clenbuterol . Has the same effects but to a litle less extreme, without the side effect. I believeit comes in a tablet or an inhailer, and is legal by prescrption.

  31. #31
    moranitotongano is offline Associate Member
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    We can choose are actions but not consequences.

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    use of ALCAR and other cardio protective supplements may greatly reduce risk.

  33. #33
    imanewbie is offline Associate Member
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    Whats Alcar?

  34. #34
    CapnZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    so do we know if these heart probs are permanent - someone suggested earlier that the heart can regenerate - is this true

    also are there any preventitive measures we could take to minimise heart risk when on clen

    a few things come to mind such as folic acid for the heart, vit e for cardiovascular sytem - surely these would these be beneficial (although i do not know to what degree? or what doses to use?) and are there any others to add to the list??
    Most of what I've read and researched indicates myocardial damage is permanent. Not worth the risk. Just my .02

  35. #35
    305GUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imanewbie
    Whats Alcar?
    Acetyl L-Carnitine

  36. #36
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    Anything you take whether it be a greasy burger or AAS or Clen your taking risk............. I think that clen is safe enough for me to take and it needs to be a personal decision on whether or not to use it and how much!!!!!!

  37. #37
    SensP is offline Associate Member
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    Is tren as effective for fatburning as clen ? I'm thinking that, even though tren has its own share of sides, it would be safer than clen. Perhaps it would best be employed in a cutting cycle with prop and masteron ? Then, if you're worried about gaining fat in pct, perhaps you could use some proviron or var at a low dose as a bridge between cycles.

    It just seems to me that there are alternative methods for cutting out there that do involve drugs, but do not involve stuff that's really rough on the heart. I myself won't ever touch clen. I've tried ephedrine and I couldn't even deal with the sides from that. Test and t-bol gave me less sides than ephedrine. I really don't like stimulants.
    Last edited by SensP; 09-27-2005 at 03:48 PM.

  38. #38
    G-Force's Avatar
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    i really like ephedrine - love the buzz

    i didnt know that Actyl l carnitine had a positive effect on yiur cardiovascular system?
    where did u hear this info?

    i just thought it was used to raise natty test levels and assist in fat burning

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by moranitotongano
    We can choose are actions but not consequences.
    In the case of using clen , we can also choose the consequenses. Heart palputations are common as well as an increase in heart rate and cramps, but too counter those, you can supplement taurine and potassium, and drikn plenty of liquids qhile cycling clen. By doing this, the consequenses or "sides" or quite minimal.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUISECONTROL
    Anything you take whether it be a greasy burger or AAS or Clen your taking risk............. I think that clen is safe enough for me to take and it needs to be a personal decision on whether or not to use it and how much!!!!!!
    I concur..

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