DOCTORS and STEROIDS

[massripped]

What kind of steroids can a doctor prescribe for you? If you were able to get a doctor to do this could they write a prescription for any kind of steroids or are there ones that they wont be able to write up?

[JoeBlow2000]

I will be an MD this May. We can prescribe the following according to the Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia that every doctor uses and is updated each year. I have included drugs that I've seen posted on this board and the categories in which they're under.

In the book under "androgens/anabolic steroids " we have:

fluoxymesterone (Halotestin )
methyltestosterone (Android, Testred, Virilon)
nandrolone decanoate (Deca -Durabolin )
testosterone (Enanthate , Cypionate , Androderm, Testroderm)

Under "other endocrine and metablic agents" we have:

growth hormone , human (Protropin, Genotropin, Norditropin, Nutropin, Humatrope, Serostim, Saizen)

Under "OB/GYN" we have:
clomiphene (Clomid, Milophene, Serophene)

I've tried the Androderm for about 4 weeks with very mild results so far. Haven't had a chance to play around with the others yet.

Starting July 1st... I can self-medicate!

Joe Blow

[TNT]

Originally posted by JoeBlow2000
I will be an MD this May. We can prescribe the following... clomiphene (Clomid, Milophene, Serophene)...
Starting July 1st... I can self-medicate!

I trust you realize, future doctor, that the first time you attempt to cash in a self-written prescription for Clomid (or one of your friends attempts to get Clomid on a script written by you), you will have the pharmacist laughing his or her ass off at you (at the very least). Not to mention the possibility that a by-the-book pharmacist will take "appropriate action."

[For newbies, that's because Clomid has only one clinical indication (reason to use it): to induce ovulation.]

Look, dude, I don't want to go moral on you . . . but I will. You've got a choice of being a good doctor, or risking your license and the next 40 or so years because you're a rank amateur that's going to screw it up fast, especially if you're using the Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia.

One comment of note . . . Here at A.R., we actually have several professionals who post on a regular basis - people who work in fields such as medicine, pharmacology, the allied health sciences, and law. Those who are "credentialed," as it were, don't have to shout it out - they know that the old saying, "If you've got it, flaunt it" is bullshit. When you've got it, you don't have to flaunt it, and the quality of your research and writing will testify as to your competence. It's res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself.

We have, on the other hand, seen a few situations recently on the board in which persons claiming to have doctoral-level or other professional credentials have actually been bullshit artists (and not very good ones, since they got caught).

As for the original subject of this thread, this issue has been covered fairly extensively in the past. The general consensus is that anyone can consult a physician to have their health status monitored when on an AS cycle. This might include lab work and general discussions with your physician, which are confidential under the physician-patient relationship. However, it is very rare for a physician to prescribe gear without a medical indication for it, as a physician who does so would be risking his or her professional license, creating a liability risk in terms of insurance coverage, and risking arrest.

Moreover, from the perspective of an AS user, you have a choice: You can go to a sleazeball doctor who will prescribe AS (again, if you can find one in the first place), or you can go to a competent physician who will be honest with you about the pro's and con's of AS use - nonjudgmental, but nonfacilitating. It is the latter type of physician from whom you will receive more competent medical care, and when the rubber meets the road (namely, when you're sick and need a doctor), you don't want to go to the sleaze that will prescribe anything.

Right now, the young and future Dr. Blow sounds like the first type of doctor. With time, and a little maturity, he will hopefully join the ranks of the latter and simply be a good doctor.

Final perspective: A freshly minted M.D. graduate knows squat about medicine. They have the book knowledge, but it's not until they're well into their residency that they learn how to be doctors. On one hand, there's the old joke, "What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class at med school? Doctor." On the other hand, even the guy (or woman) who graduates first in the class knows that he's still only at the beginning of the road.

So humble thyself, future doctor - it will make you a better physician.

End of bitch-slapping, fingers-snapping-in-a-circle response. Have a nice day.

[viper]

totally agree with TNT.......

[viper]

as for the first question.......
if you are diagnosed as androgen deficient, you can be prescribed a few different items...
1- depo-test - although some insurance companies will not cover injectables....(cypionate )
2- android or methyl-test (pill)....the 10mg per day rx you will get for this stuff is mainly useless....plus it is hard on the liver
3- test patch (androderm etc.)....i don't care much for this delivery system....plus i hear complaints of skin irritation....

unless you have a condition i dont know about, these are your basic choices for test replacement...

[Canes4Ever]

Woof ! TNT !!!! you go brother !

tsk tsk tsk to you Mr. Blow

[JoeBlow2000]

Fellows,

Believe it or not I expected that kind of a response from some of you. However I was only trying to help you guys after seeing some of the absolute crap some members were posting.

I would never prescribe something like clomid for any friend even close to my age. Also, I have many close friends that are pharmacists. My intention would be to use these drugs on myself and only myself possibly in the future. I have no need to make a few dollars here and there selling AS to random people.

As far as only having book knowledge, I think you are gravely mistaken. I'm sure this next comment with inflame you even more but I'm going to say it anyway; you can't put people in the fields of pharmacology, the allied health sciences, and law in the same league as MD's when it comes to knowledge about the body.

So in conclusion, I was not trying to flaunt anything - I was merely trying to help some of your members. You have guys on here flaunting AS like there's no tomorrow and proclaiming to be experts.

This will be my last post. I don't need the harassment.

Joe

[Pete235]

Originally posted by JoeBlow2000
This will be my last post. I don't need the harassment.

That's a shame

[9natural9]

ummm you will be missed

[Canes4Ever]

<------- blowing kisses to Joe Blow

Bon voyage and good luck (you'll need it)

[gettinthere]

I'm nervously awaiting the day i get reamed by TNT! You are so damn articulate it amazes me. how can you expect any counter-arguments on your level!? It's not fair dude. What did you get on the sat's? lol

[Dr.Evil]

joeblow, no one was trying to flame you. you shouldn't over react when anyone disagrees with your statements. we have discussions on this board and sometimes when we disagree, members can see all sides of the story and learn the most that way. you have useful info and i think you can be a great contributor to our board. i hope you stay.

to answer the Q, docs can prescribe just about anything if you have a legitimate reason for it. if you're severely anemic you can even get anadrol -50 prescribed to you.

[Methuselah]

As TNT has demonstrated, flaming does have a time and a place. I will not miss JoeBlow2000. I just love people with years of knowledge and no experince; JoeBlow was certainly "flaunting" one of them.

See ya, JoeBlow. Bet you've been booted here before and came back under a new name; you sound like someone else I know.

However, I do understand where you're coming from. It's like a new cop saying "now I can legaly shoot people". Just a little pre-game hype for yourself I suppose. I'm sure that you'll be a fine doc in time. No one wakes up in the morning and says "hey, I'm going to do a bad job today". And, on another note, I would give up juice if you're going to prescribe it so you can remain subjective. I mean, let's not have herion addicts prescribing methadone here. I'm sure that you'll be too generous with the scripts.

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by gettinthere
I'm nervously awaiting the day i get reamed by TNT! You are so damn articulate it amazes me. how can you expect any counter-arguments on your level!? It's not fair dude. What did you get on the sat's? lol

If TNT were to ream me, I would lay low for awhile. I study some of his prose, the man is a f*cking genius. It's got to hurt when you're on his bad side. He does have a powerful way with words.

[TNT]

I think a comment or two is relevant here in order to put what has apparently become the "Joe Blow issue" to rest.

Joe, Dr. Evil is quite correct: My intent was not to flame you, it was to temper you, as one would temper steel. I had the impression that you might not have the maturity to take it and, sure enough, you didn't. But I do not get my jollies from busting your ego, sport. I have a bigger concern - helping to ensure that the brethren on this board get accurate information from people who don't have a hidden agenda, don't need their egos stroked, and who have nothing to prove.

My impression is that you are still getting used to your white coat. If, indeed, you are about to graduate medical school, you would have been wearing that coat for at least two years already. Guess what: The coat don't fit ya. Nor wil it, as long as you act like a presumptuous, pompous, priggish, piss-ant putz. (Damn, I love alliteration!) The treatment you got from me is nothing compared to what you would get on grand rounds. If you don't know that, then you've never been on grand rounds, and that raises doubts about your claims.

Joe, old buddy, you have made a total of four posts to this board. One of them was presumptuous, and another was sufficiently off the wall that I felt the need to add an appropriate response. (You'll find it in the thread on liver enzymes.)

Moreover, in your response in this thread, you stated, "Yu can't put people in the fields of pharmacology, the allied health sciences, and law in the same league as MD's when it comes to knowledge about the body." I don't believe I did that, but when it comes to people who have appropriate training and expertise in their respective fields, you certainly can put them in the same league as an M.D. And that includes knowledge about the body. It includes the Pharm.D. who develops new therapies, the R.N. who carries the ball when it cocmes to patient care, the D.P.H. and D.P.A. that keep the system running, the D.P.T. and Psy.D. who have more expertise in their respective fields than an M.D. (and any competent M.D. will admit that in a second), and it even includes the presumptuous air-heads that just bought their first white coats and think they know it all. But most of all, it includes anyone with a high level of professional competence who is willing to sit on his butt and think with his head rather than the otehr way around.

With that in mind, if you can not take a little critique, C-ya!

By the way, campers, I agree with Methusaleh. Joe Blow sounds awfully like someone else we busted on here a few weeks ago for claiming to be a physician. Same type of misstatements, same level of immaturity, same defensive posture, same chickenshit cop-out. Same lack of realization that men and women who are about to graduate from medical school are at the top of their class when it comes to maturity level. And if someone doesn't exhibit the knowledge or the maturity, it calls into question their claims in the first place. Like I said, res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself.

Finally, I can count the times I've had to engage in such a blatant critique on one hand. That's a testimony to the quality of people that we have posting on A.R. - yeah, even the youngin's. If you're for real, don't make B.S. claims about your credentials, and don't proclaim to be an expert or speak in a professional role whiel passing along incorrect clinical information, you have no fear.

As for me, I never blow my own horn. (If I could, I'd never leave the bedroom.) So I'll tell you, for what it's worth, my SAT scores sucked eggs.

[Methuselah]

Another good one from TNT!

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by JoeBlow2000
I will be an MD this May. We can prescribe the following according to the Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia that every doctor uses and is updated each year. I have included drugs that I've seen posted on this board and the categories in which they're under.

In the book under "androgens/anabolic steroids " we have:

fluoxymesterone (Halotestin )
methyltestosterone (Android, Testred, Virilon)
nandrolone decanoate (Deca -Durabolin )
testosterone (Enanthate , Cypionate , Androderm, Testroderm)

Under "other endocrine and metablic agents" we have:

growth hormone , human (Protropin, Genotropin, Norditropin, Nutropin, Humatrope, Serostim, Saizen)

Under "OB/GYN" we have:
clomiphene (Clomid, Milophene, Serophene)

I've tried the Androderm for about 4 weeks with very mild results so far. Haven't had a chance to play around with the others yet.

Starting July 1st... I can self-medicate!

Joe Blow

How about something like this...

MD's can prescribe meds according to the Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia. That is the book that doctor's use. It is updated each year. Some of the drugs that may be of interest to BB's and AAS user are listed below.

Listed in the book under "androgens/anabolic steroids " there are:

fluoxymesterone (Halotestin)
methyltestosterone (Android, Testred, Virilon)
nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin)
testosterone (Enanthate, Cypionate, Androderm, Testroderm)

Under "other endocrine and metablic agents" there are:

growth hormone, human (Protropin, Genotropin, Norditropin, Nutropin, Humatrope, Serostim, Saizen)

Under "OB/GYN" there are:
clomiphene (Clomid, Milophene, Serophene)

Personally, I used androderm for four weeks and the results were mild. I used it like this, xxxx xxxxx xxxxx. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions for using it on my next cycle? I'd like to hear about your experiences and learn more about it myself.

Starting July 1st... I can self-masturbate!

TX Joe Blow

I sure like the "there are" better than "we have". I think that's the differentiator between arrogance and helpful.

Doc, I just thought I'd help you with the context. I majored in English and minored in plagiarism. I can't wait to see your new member name and avatar this time around!

[Fif the Great]

I'm totally with TNT on this one. I am now only 1 year away from applying to medical school. I know a lot now about the body and how it works, more than a lot of people, but do I know it all, no, hell no, not even remotely close. 3 years of college is a lot, but I still am looking down the barrel of 5 more. I will learn a lot in those 5 upcoming years. Overall, a career in medicine is a constant learning process, new innovations, new techniques, and tons of different perspectives from various fields of medicine are found and offered everyday. There's never an end to what you can learn as a physician. To act like you know it all at this stage in your career is a mistake, and sadly, someone could get hurt for your bullheadedness. It's a shame that some day you'll be called doctor.

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by Fif the Great
I'm totally with TNT on this one. I am now only 1 year away from applying to medical school. I know a lot now about the body and how it works, more than a lot of people, but do I know it all, no, hell no, not even remotely close. 3 years of college is a lot, but I still am looking down the barrel of 5 more. I will learn a lot in those 5 upcoming years. Overall, a career in medicine is a constant learning process, new innovations, new techniques, and tons of different perspectives from various fields of medicine are found and offered everyday. There's never an end to what you can learn as a physician. To act like you know it all at this stage in your career is a mistake, and sadly, someone could get hurt for your bullheadedness. It's a shame that some day you'll be called doctor.

Fif, don't even waste your time on this guy. Your speaking to deaf ears. His ego will be the end of him.

Can you see him as a doctor? He knows more about how the patient feels that the patient does?

I'll bet it would sound something like this..

"You're the patient, I'm the doctor. The book of meds says you shouldn't react that way to what I prescribed you. Take 1.5 times the dose and see how you do. WE always do it that way. BTW, I was top of my class my junior year!"

I like his use of the word we, it makes him feel like he's a part of a guilded club or something.

[fever]

I THINK IT,S A SHAME THAT HE IS GONE,ASSUMING HE IS GOING TO BE A REAL MD.WELL I THINK WE WILL MISS OUT.LETS SEE IF I WAS A DR AND I READ TNT,S POST,I WOULDNT BOTHER POSTING ANYMORE EITHER,SO THANKS FOR CHASING HIM AWAY.JMO

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by fever
I THINK IT,S A SHAME THAT HE IS GONE,ASSUMING HE IS GOING TO BE A REAL MD.WELL I THINK WE WILL MISS OUT.LETS SEE IF I WAS A DR AND I READ TNT,S POST,I WOULDNT BOTHER POSTING ANYMORE EITHER,SO THANKS FOR CHASING HIM AWAY.JMO

Don't lose any sleep. He probably was not a doctor. It happens all the time around here. The guys that are doctors would never let you know, there are already a few on the board.

p.s. After reading Joe Blows post, I almost don't bother posting on the board anymore. It's better that he's gone before he gives someone a patient assisted suicide or something worse.

[fever]

LMFAO

[TNT]

Fif, that's the best perspective I've read on this entire issue. It echoes what the great American philosopher Clinton Eastwood said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

As I mentioned, the person with truly legit credentials doesn't have to flaunt it - his or her knowledge will speak for itself. Moreover, Fif's main point is outstanding: Education is a lifelong process. It does not cease once you attain "X" degrees, attain certification or licensure, or attain position. That is why many of the helping professions have a continuing education requirement - doctors, lawyers, psychologists, counselors, and ancilllary health professionals must take a certain amount of continuing education each year to update their skills level. If it wasn't for that, we'd still be using leaches. And ether as an anesthetic in the operating room. And so it goes.

I learn something new every day. In fact, much of what I learn is based on A.R. members' questions. As some readers know, last week I had my body popped open for a hernia repair. (Really. And doin' fine, thanks!) Three weeks ago, I knew squat about hernias. Now I know more about hernias than some (though obviously not all) doctors. Knowledge is power, and necessity is sometimes the best catalyst for gaining knowledge.

Fever, your opinion is noted and accepted, but I would cordially disagree. The person who actually is a doctor and who comes on an anabolics-related board knows, among other things, the nature of the internet. Spam is more than a type of meat, and flames are more than what cooks it. There an old expression to the effect that if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. A real doctor (whether M.D., Ph.D., or any other type of legitimately accredited doctorate) can stand the heat and will welcome any questions or challenges with both patience and humor. If he or she stands on a pedestal at all, it will not be out of plaster of paris, and it will not crack merely because someone raises a question as to the writer's claims. Someone who, when questioned or challenged, turns tail and runs is not what he or she purports to be in the first place.

I think it's important to have the right frame of mind when one posts here, because accuracy is everything, tempered (especially in the case of some of our younger and more enthusiastic readers) with compassion and patience. This is not the place where you give others information just to stroke your own ego.

(Besides, if I let everyone's compliments get to me, I'd be having one big, long, ongoing orgasm. I appreciate it, everyone - really I do [batting eyelashes in a charming sort of way], but my game is about advocating the intelligent, informed use of AS, always erring on the side of safety. I'm not here to thrust and parry, but I'm willing to foist the sword when I have to.)

Methusaleh is quite correct: There are a few doctors (both medicine and related fields) around this joint. But most of them are caught between a rock and a hard place, because their mere participation in an AS board could be construed as advocacy. Therefore, they keep a low profile, and I support their doing so. One thing you can rest assured of is that the moderators watch out for any newbies that come onto the board in super-pontification mode. It's not a power trip, as we welcome anyone who knows what he or she is talking about, but we are careful to ensure that anyone who presumes to speak from a position of authority (especially if it's a credentialed or licensure-based position) is doing so accurately and without false embellishment.

[D00fy]

hey i get flamed all the time you dont see me running away

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by JoeBlow2000
I've only been on this board a few days now and already I've burst out laughing at many of the forum member's posts that include studies.

If you really want reliable studies on any supplement go to:
http://www.mdconsult.com and register. You can register for a free trial period. It's the site that all physicians use when they evaluate any drug or supplement and most studies on it are peer reviewed and done in an ivy league setting.

So... stop posting all these crappy overseas studies!

Joe

This one had to be the worst. The guy basically called all of you a bunch of *ssholes. I am happy that arrogant ass left.

Here's another one. This is the one that I refer to as patient assisted suicide. Come on, Joe Blow said so, there's no need to see a doc. He is one. Oh BTW Joe Blow, most of the guys on here are on steroids or are thinking about being on steroids.

Originally posted by JoeBlow2000
Hello.

Elevated liver enzymes is a very non-specific finding. Unless you're on steroids or are a binge drinker I wouldn't worry about it.

I was running 30 miles a week and had the same "problem". It's ok to have your liver running in overdrive.

Joe

[androplex]

deleted by sender