Printable View
If I feel my nuts have shrunk a bit too much during a cycle I'll do a week of 50mg Clomid ED along with 4g of trib a day & it always returns my nuts to a nice plump state - I'll prolly do this once a month or so................
I would have thought it would help with recovery as your nutz are revived once in a while & never allowed to be shrunk for too long
Anyone else do this, or see any reason why its a bad idea?
bump! I'm curious to know too. Reason being that I can't get HCG that is 1500iu, as they only have 5000 iu. If I were to use 500 iu every 3 days for even a week, I'd have to throw away 4500ius each time. That would be a waste, so that's why I thought maybe clomid can work too if used for a week maybe twice in a 12 week cycle, ie week 4 and 8.
why would you have to throw it away :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zennie
because once suspended it only lasts 10-14 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by bullram
if he was taking 500ius every 3 days then thats five shots, 2500ius before it goes bad. I have always preloaded syringes from mixing a 5000iu kit kept them in the fridge and used them every 4 days, never had any problems
ive always heard 60 days if refrigeratedQuote:
Originally Posted by ChefJ
Back to the point...that's interesting, I'm taking Clomid during cycle but still shut down, I just assumed that there was no way around it. Might add trib just for the hell of it to see what happens.
IMO, i wouldn't use clomid during a cycle - reason being you are taking the clomid to tell your body to start producing its own natural test, by telling your body to start producing its own and then injecting extra into your system which tells it to slow production down, you're gonna throw it all off and might end up on HRT for life.
what evidence are you basing this comment on?Quote:
you're gonna throw it all off and might end up on HRT for life.
this is actually how the body works natrually - test has a negative feedback loop to control its' own prodution.
This is exactly why I use it - It's just the ant-e properties that cause the increase in natty test - I figure that if you keep on jumpstarting your natty production every few weeks then it may help stop you getting severly shut down.Quote:
IMO, i wouldn't use clomid during a cycle - reason being you are taking the clomid to tell your body to start producing its own natural test
I know of a couple of pros who run clomid throughout their whole cycle for this purpose - that seemed a little excessive to me so I tried the 1 weeks approach - it definately works, just interested if anyones got any reasons why its a bad idea.
Clomid - for PCT only
HCG (500iu E3D) - during cycle to prevent shrinkage
I thought protocol on HCG was 500 IUs on Sat and 500 IUs on Sunday during cycle to maintain testicular size.Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowme
every 3 days is basically 2x a week, either way is fine.
HCG has a halflife somwhere around 70-80h so preferbly is to inject E3D or Mon/Thurs.
This is an old school technique and people have sworn by it for 20+ years. Many guys over the years have used clomid all thru cycle, some have compared cycles with clomid all thru plus PCT as well as only on PCT, most will swear recovery is better with clomid used all thru the cycle as well as in PCT. There is evidence that tribulis and/or tongkat ali used all thru the cycle also is beneficial, sort of like using an "herbal" HCG, not as strong and unable to cause burn out of your leydig cells like HCG can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Earl
Tribulis has been shown to inhibit conversion of testosterone to estrogen, it also inhibits conversion to DHT and can even interfere with conversion of various products to progesterone or prolactin, so tribulis can be said so be something of an herbal anti-E, but dont count in its as your only protection. Tongkat can interfere with formation of sex hormone binding globilins so this herbal can lower your tollerance to testosterone and make your body more responsive to lesser amounts of testosterone. CLomid directly blocks estrogen from your testicles and your hypothalmus and your pituitary gland so it can directly protect you from damage to these areas from excess estrogen in your body, however it protects your nuts the best, its not very effective with blocking estrogen from your breast tissues.
Also it depends on what you are doing. High doses of testosterone shrink the balls, lower doses dont effect it so much. Deca and tren shrink the balls like crazy, but if you stay on testosterone only cycle for several weeks AFTER the deca or tren wears out, you will actually notice your balls increasing in size in spite of remaining shut down because of the testosterone. This is if the testosterone doses are under 600 mg with estrogen protection. A lot of long cyclers have started with first 2 months on deca, then continued 3 months after the deca ran out on moderate doses of testosterone only and the balls come back, cum loads increase back to near normal, recovery goes over much better then if you tried recovery immediately after deca. So it goes to show, ball shrinkage and recovery difficulty is very much related to what you are doing, with testosteorne only being one of the most friendly to health and recovery for the male body of all the steroids.
I had no idea that HCG can burn out your Leydig cells. I am looking into a test E, Eq, anavar, with prop front and backside cycle. Is the HCG overkill. I was looking into like 5000ius every third day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntpadude
I was also going to run trib and tongkat ali as well.
What is the dosing on clomid if run during cycle...?
id just hit up 500iu's sat/sun throughout cycle for hcg
typo...I meant 500ius. Is there any research to indicate which is better...clomid vs. HCG
Also, what levels of HCG have been shown to negatively affect leydig cells...?
use HCG
what kind of schedule...Saturday and Sunday or on bi-weekly injection days.
depends... im goin to do it 1 wk mid cycle and towards the end of my cycle...
how much you gonna do...?
Also, if I already have aromasin for sides during cycle, any need to add a little nolva in there to help with the HPTA. This is where I have heard that a little clomid works wonders on protecting the nuts from being over powered by estrogen.
I do believe HCG should never be run more then 4 weeks in a row within a 6 month period of time. You can do higher doses but its preferable to do 500 IU twice a week. Higher increases risk of burn out. Lets say the actual terminology escapes me, I believe its your leydig cells become desensatized to luetinizing hormone so your HTPA can no longer command your testes to produce testosterone and you become dependant on HRT. HCG has its limits, you cannot run it from day one to the last day of a 12 week cycle, you can become permanently desensatized by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
Alright, so should I just run it every other week at 500ius on Sunday and thursday or are you saying that 500ius twice a week is not enought to burn them out...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntpadude
What about clomid a couple of times throughout the week instead...? I have a feeling I am going to get tired of sticking myself.
No its a combination. Doctors now say should not do more then 500 ius at a time, the best therapy is to do it 4 weeks in a row twice a week. It might not give you the desired results to do it every other week and you can still desensatize your balls to LH which is bad bad bad if you do like more then 8 injects within a 6 month window (a 4 week cycle).Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
Alright. So basically it is best to run it 4 weeks continous at like an every 3rd day at about 500ius. In either case, you are saying that studies indicate that if you do more than 4000ius in a 6 month period, you are at risk of shuting down or desensitizing your leydig cells. That is bad bad bad...I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntpadude
If I want to keep some size in the nuts throughout and HCG doesn't do the trick in only 4 weeks, how do you feel about clomid...?
Well this is all complicated. First, HCG is not needed by your average cycle of under 25 weeks (6 months more or less). Clomid can easily bring about recovery unless you've done deca or tren within 5-6 weeks before PCT. I've done 30 week cycles and had very vigorous and robust recoveries off a combination of clomid and tongkat ali, no HCG needed. Within 10 days of the start of PCT, my balls had tripled in size, sex drive restored and lots of good things. The reality is I should have run HCG on the 4th month of my 7 month long cycle, but I did testosterone only for the last 4 months and testosterone is actually a very friendly steroid on the male body, so I didnt have to worry about deca or tren inhibition of recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
My cycle will only be 16 weeks total and the last 3 will be prop and Var. I was always under the impression that if the nuts were at full size once you started PCT that they would be that much more likely to restart faster. Plus, it is a visual thing for my and my GF that is not really supposed notice anything or certainly doesn't want to see my nuts shrink up. Cycle will consist of Test and Eq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntpadude
How do you feel about running trib and tongkat ali throughout...?
Clomid during cycle...?
I would sooner recommend HCG than Clomid with the tribulis to resensitize the testes... Clomid use for too long or too often has reported visual disturbances/bluring... this problem is docummented in the medical journals... but a few weeks after a cycle every once in awhile - no problems. It's prolonged and frequent use that is a concern...
Yeah, use HCG during a cycle and clomid after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior
Good facts warrior. :chinese:
On my 7 month cycle I ran trib and tongkat for the first 4 months, ball size stayed OK, no aches cum loads were good. On a long cycle you get tired of keeping your regiment on track plus there were some economic reasons so I fell out of using the tongkat and tribulis, I think I also started forgetting to take nolva EOD and was taking it weekly to 10 days, only when I noticed my nipples getting noticable (sore, sensative, etc), and it was about a month after discontinuing the tongkat and tribulis that the balls started aching regularly and start doing a bunch of shrinking. The 7th month is where the balls did 90% of the shrinking, cum loads become so small it was just a single drip is all I shot. At that point I decided to go ahead and PCT, stocked up on tongkat and tribulis to assist the recovery. Actually I was going to get HCG but my roid supplier's house blew down in the summer hurricanes so I was stuck. I started the tongkat and tribulis on the day of my last injection. About 10 days later I was crashing with hard depression, I then started clomid and double the tongkat and tribulis, the depression lasted no more then 3 days and I was already on the road to recovery, achy balls stopped aching, within 5 days of starting clomid, the balls were substantially growing bigger, sex drive was actually coming back some but dont get me wrong, at this stage, giving the wife a hard dick was only going to happen no more frequently then every 4 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchblack
I wouldnt worry about it, clomid with combination of tongkat ali/tribulis and make sure you are a good period of time past your last deca or tren (like 5 weeks continue test past the deca/tren if you need to) and your recovery shouldnt be so bad at all!
good read > http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp
Thanks for the input guys.
Good stuff. I am only doing Test and Eq and coming off with prop.
I am going to run trib and tongkat ali throughout to keep the boys up in the safe range. I will also do Nolva at 10mgs EOD