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  1. #1
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    How much Nolva for a possible gyno outbreak?

    I've read numbers all over the place, I'm not really sure what to take. I have noticable gyno on one side left over from puberty. So I'm super paranoid about gyno, mainly afraid that it will get worse and look really bad.

    So every time I feel something (which is tough to tell b/c it's ALWAYS tender, puffy, etc) I get worried and throw down some nolva for a few days.

    I should also mention that, while on cycle, I'm taking 10mg nolva ED and 0.5mg arimidex EOD. The cycle is dbol (4wks)/test enanth/eq.

    So whatcha think? 40mg ED? 50mg? How many days? I really want to play it safe as far as gyno goes.

  2. #2
    MER's Avatar
    MER
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    80mg a day till syptoms subside

    I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...10mg in one day gets rid of my symptoms. Always use the pill. I think the liquid is crap

  3. #3
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    40 to 60 is fine. How much D and test you on?

  4. #4
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    First off what "type" of gyno is it? Were you producing any liquid from your nipple?

  5. #5
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    Maybe you should avoid the nolvadex....?

    Depends...if its progesterone related and not entirely estrogenic in cause, and you use nolvadex , you may be at an increased risk for progesteronic sides, as nolvadex may increase progesterone receptors (Gynecol Oncol. 1999 Mar;72(3):331-6.).

    All of this is, of course, old news to BB4L people, as I posted about it roughly a year ago, here:

    http://www.*****************.com/mod...showpage&pid=6



    Gynecol Oncol. 1999 Mar;72(3):331-6.

    Effects of tamoxifen on steroid hormone receptors and hormone concentration and the results of DNA analysis by flow cytometry in endometrial carcinoma.

    Nola M, Jukic S, Ilic-Forko J, Babic D, Uzarevic B, Petrovecki M, Suchanek E, Skrablin S, Dotlic S, Marusic M.

    Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, University Hospital and School of Medicine, Zagreb, Croatia.

    OBJECTIVES: Tamoxifen is a non********* triphenylethylene derivate with a predominant antiestrogen activity, used in the endocrine treatment of breast and endometrial cancer. It is not known which endometrial carcinomas will respond favorably to tamoxifen and which ones will not. The aim of this study was to find out whether tamoxifen has an effect on hormone steroid receptors, hormone concentration, DNA content, and proliferative activity in endometrial cancer and to correlate the tamoxifen-induced changes with pathologic parameters such as clinical stage, tumor differentiation, depth of invasion, and histologic type. METHODS: Thirty postmenopausal women with endometrial carcinoma were treated with 30 mg of tamoxifen daily for 7-10 days after curettage. Steroid hormone receptors (estrogen and progesterone receptors), levels of follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, prolactin, estradiol, progesterone, testosterone , dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, sex hormone binding globulin, and DNA ploidy and proliferative activity were determined before and after therapy. The patients were also divided into favorable and unfavorable prognosis groups according to classical histological parameters. The patients in the favorable group consisted of patients with stage I disease, well and moderately differentiated tumors, favorable histologic type, and a depth of myometrial invasion of less than (1/3). The patients with only one of the unfavorable parameters (clinical stage II or III, poorly differentiated tumors, unfavorable histologic types, and deeper invasion of myometrium) were included in the unfavorable prognosis group. RESULTS: After the treatment, there was a net increase in the progesterone receptors and sex hormone binding globulin and a significant decrease in the estrogen receptors. The increase in progesterone receptors and decrease in estrogen receptors occurred in the patient group with favorable prognosis regarding histologic type, degree of differentiation, and clinical stage, but also in the unfavorable prognosis group regarding the depth of myometrial invasion. Statistically significant decrease in the follicle-stimulating hormone concentration was observed in the groups with favorable prognosis regarding histologic type, depth of myometrial invasion, and grade of differentiation. Concentration of sex hormone binding globulin was significantly increased in groups with favorable prognosis if histologic type and grade of differentiation were taken into account. On the other hand, there was a significant decrease in the concentration of luteinizing hormone in the group with unfavorable histologic type and also a decrease in progesterone concentration in patients with unfavorable prognosis regarding the grade of differentiation. There was no statistical significance either in the concentrations of other hormones measured or in the DNA analysis by flow cytometry. CONCLUSIONS: Our results revealed that tamoxifen can increase progesterone receptors and decrease estrogen receptors in endometrial cancer. The effect was most pronounced in tumors with favorable clinicopathologic parameters. We conclude that tamoxifen therapy can induce progesterone receptor synthesis even in tumors with low initial progesterone receptor levels, making such tumors potentially responsive to additional hormonal therapy with progesterone.

  6. #6
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Hooker beat me to it. Don't forget that "deca " gyno is also dependant on estrogen.

    I posted this before.

    Progesterone and estrogen also work together to cause mammary gland stimulation.(deca gyno) so dealing with estrogen WILL PREVENT DECA/FINA GYNO.


    Endocrinology, Vol 103, 186-192, Copyright © 1978 by Endocrine Society


    ARTICLES


    Progesterone is not essential to the differentiative potential of mammary epithelium in the male mouse
    CS Freeman and YJ Topper


    In pursuit of a model system in which to determine whether or not exposure to progesterone is necessary for mammary epithelial cells to develop their differentiative potential, we explored hormone-dependent growth of the mammary epithelial rudiment in adult male mice. Initiation of the formation of ductal cells can be effected by administration of estradiol in the absence of endogenous progesterone and glucocorticoid using adrenalectomized-castrated animals. The resulting epithelium contains three times more lactose synthetase activity per epithelial cell than that in midpregnant mice. The blood spermidine level in these doubly operated animals was similar to the concentration of spermidine required to substitute effectively for glucocorticoid during mammary differentiation in vitro. It is suggested that spermidine can partially supplant glucocorticoid in vivo in milk protein synthesis. We also concluded that, unlike other secondary sex tissues, mammary cells do not require exposure to progesterone during their ontogeny in order to realize their differentiative potential. The positive role of this steroid in mammary development is apparently limited to its effect on the formation of alveolar structures.

  7. #7
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    Exactly, Big.

    Thats why I reccomend Letro. You can eliminate all of your estrogen, if you wish with this drug...and basically I can't imagine saying "I have 0 estrogen in my body...and I still have gyno..."

  8. #8
    Nastynas is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Exactly, Big.

    Thats why I reccomend Letro. You can eliminate all of your estrogen, if you wish with this drug...and basically I can't imagine saying "I have 0 estrogen in my body...and I still have gyno..."
    I that a good thing?? not have any estrogen in your body??

  9. #9
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    Not always...but if you are trying to make gyno go away, then it is.

  10. #10
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Letrozole the best drug for the war on estrogen/progesterone IMO.

  11. #11
    peump's Avatar
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    ATTN: BIG K.L.G. & HOOKER

    if one planned on a cycle consisting of
    500mg test e /wk
    300-400mg deca /wk
    10mg nolva /ed
    .25mg l-dex /ed
    200mg B6 /ed

    would you recomend letro ran throughout or

    keep it on hand in case symptoms of deca gyno occur or

    would the b6 most likely keep it in check

    im under the impression that the nolva is vital due to positve effects on lipids and blocking any estrogen aromatized from the test. the reason ive decided on l-dex/nolva combo is that it seems to be safer and or more healthy than letro/nolva combo.
    Any feedback will be much appreciated!

    if im way off track then please set me straight!

  12. #12
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by peump
    ATTN: BIG K.L.G. & HOOKER

    if one planned on a cycle consisting of
    500mg test e /wk
    300-400mg deca /wk
    10mg nolva /ed
    .25mg l-dex /ed
    200mg B6 /ed

    would you recomend letro ran throughout or

    keep it on hand in case symptoms of deca gyno occur or

    would the b6 most likely keep it in check

    im under the impression that the nolva is vital due to positve effects on lipids and blocking any estrogen aromatized from the test. the reason ive decided on l-dex/nolva combo is that it seems to be safer and or more healthy than letro/nolva combo.
    Any feedback will be much appreciated!

    if im way off track then please set me straight!
    Letrozole ON cycle not ON hand. Yes letro has a negative impact on cholesterol but you can offset it with nolva, cardio, and diet.

    I don't recommend B6 because muscle cells respond to steroids better in a B6 deficient environment.

  13. #13
    peump's Avatar
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    how about aromasin (exemestane)

  14. #14
    peump's Avatar
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    bump

  15. #15
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Hmmmm I'm unsure.

    I'll have to research it more. I still believe letro is the best.

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  17. #17
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by big k.l.g
    First off what "type" of gyno is it? Were you producing any liquid from your nipple?
    Tissue behind/around the nipple. Difficult to discribe. It hurts if you mess w/ it too hard. Makes it poke out when I do a frount double-biceps.

    No liquid ever.

  18. #18
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ
    40 to 60 is fine. How much D and test you on?
    4wks into the test (~450mg/wk) and 3wks into the dbol (30mg ED).

  19. #19
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Not always...but if you are trying to make gyno go away, then it is.
    I'm pretty sure the only way I'll get rid of mine is surgery. I just plan to keep it from getting any worse, for now.

  20. #20
    peump's Avatar
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    bump for BLOWN
    sorry to jack this thread.

  21. #21
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by blown
    I'm pretty sure the only way I'll get rid of mine is surgery. I just plan to keep it from getting any worse, for now.
    How bad is it? If it's small lumps 2.5mg letro ed will most get rid of it.

  22. #22
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    i'm currently showing signs of gyno, nips have been sore and sensitive, and it feels as if my mammary gland behind my nip is quite swollen, its been like this for maybe 1.5-2weeks not i ordered some nolva and should be here beginning of next week, lol i'm not gonna have tits by then am i? .. i'm pretty paranoid, not sure how fast gyno escalates and worsens, i don't have any lactating or itching, just a sharp pain when i apply a decent amount of pressure. The thing is as i said in a few other posts i got some liquid anavar and apparantly their was dbol or something else mixed with it because as most know gyno is unheard of from anavar. So because i thought i was taking anavar i didn't have nolva on hand. And these signs didn't start till 3 weeks after my PCT of that cycle? why would it start so late after my cycle? not sure what the **** are wrong with them really, but i am interested to hear how fast gyno can worsen, i realize its probably different depending on certain people and cycles, but just looking for an average idea of how long before i start seeing noticable changes in my tits. Also was wondering what i should start running my nolva at, would 40-60mg be significant, and how long once on nolva does it usually take for the gyno symptoms subside, and when they do subside would it be safe to cycle off the nolva or is their as certain amount of time i should stay on nolva to be safe even after all symptoms have subsided. I have read most threads on here about gyno, and haven't really been able to find any information on this type of situation and information.

  23. #23
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    First off you can get gyno from anaver via indirect action. The var shut your test down, giving you an estrogen dominant environment= gyno.

    I'm unsure of how fast the gyno will grow should take a couple weeks i guess.

    The nolva may work it may not. Get some letrozole 2.5mg ed until the lumps are gone.

  24. #24
    Njectable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big k.l.g
    First off you can get gyno from anaver via indirect action. The var shut your test down, giving you an estrogen dominant environment= gyno.

    I'm unsure of how fast the gyno will grow should take a couple weeks i guess.

    The nolva may work it may not. Get some letrozole 2.5mg ed until the lumps are gone.
    well i started taking clomid again untill my nolva gets here, i guess i will also look into getting some letro, gotta get sleep right now tho for work tommorrow i'll get back to this post tommorrow

  25. #25
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by big k.l.g
    How bad is it? If it's small lumps 2.5mg letro ed will most get rid of it.
    I'd classify it as "bad."

    It's more than small lumps; it's a pretty significant mass imo. Been there since I was a teenager, and I'm 26 now and have always been lean. I suppose it can't hurt. I need to get some liquid arimidex and liquid clomid from a research site, I'll see if they have letro as well.

    Slightly off topic, how does everybody feel about liquid clomid and nolva as opposed to the tabs? People seem to like the liquid adex, but I haven't read much about the others.

    Edit: Looks like I can get LiquiFem, as the site call it. 2.5g/mL of solution.
    Last edited by blown; 01-17-2005 at 11:34 PM.

  26. #26
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by blown
    Slightly off topic, how does everybody feel about liquid clomid and nolva as opposed to the tabs? People seem to like the liquid adex, but I haven't read much about the others.
    bump

  27. #27
    blown is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by blown
    bump
    ^^^^

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