CLEN and heart damage

[tallyjuice]

I know we have all read that article that was put on here a few weeks ago. Now, I love clen and I would really like to see some studies that prove otherwise. Can anyone produce some? Can a doctor actually check for cell death in the heart in humans? Also, do these cells regenerate? If anyone has any medical expertise, I would really like to hear your opinions as well.

[bmgsxr]

bump

[toolman]

I know we have all read that article that was put on here a few weeks ago. Now, I love clen and I would really like to see some studies that prove otherwise. Can anyone produce some? Can a doctor actually check for cell death in the heart in humans? Also, do these cells regenerate? If anyone has any medical expertise, I would really like to hear your opinions as well.

Not sure what article you are refering to, but to answer one of your questions, no the heart cells do not regenerate. For instance, when heart cells die during a heart attack, they are gone for good. That is why it is important to catch it early and also why if enough cells die, a transplant is needed.

[tallyjuice]

that's some scary ****

[tallyjuice]

Here is a recent article on Clen and Myocardial apotosis posted by Liftsiron at AtomicalMuscle.com


Here is a recent study that suggests that clenbuterol use at doses we bodybuilders use may cause heart and muscle cell death.


clenbuterol and apoptosis


J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

[killu2night]

Thats bad news but even worse is the broken heart clen syndrome I have dated 2 female bodybiulders and it seems ALL female bb live on clen wel the 2 previosly mentioned broke my heart AND it seems to me there brains are cooked from clen I mean cooked one chick is so cooked she was using slin pins to inject winny and deca .
CHICKS ON CLEN just say No

[kaorialfred]

Thats bad news but even worse is the broken heart clen syndrome I have dated 2 female bodybiulders and it seems ALL female bb live on clen wel the 2 previosly mentioned broke my heart AND it seems to me there brains are cooked from clen I mean cooked one chick is so cooked she was using slin pins to inject winny and deca .
CHICKS ON CLEN just say No

dude that's messed up

[tallyjuice]

any more responses?

[9000rpm]

I'd like to see some knowlegable people like hooker chime in on this one. I am seriously thinking of not using clen anymore. I'll stick with ephedra and T3, and DNP once in a while.

[tallyjuice]

yeah, where's hooker at?