Thread: Cyp with HGH
03-23-2002, 02:29 AM #1Donating Member
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- Mar 2002
Cyp with HGH
I have read the educational threads on CYP and HGH. I also read the thread titled Growth Hormone Opinion. I need some advice agian. As you know I am very new to all this and just recently went on Cyp therapy 100mg per week. The goal is to bring my Test level to 1000 and maintain at this level. I may have CFS from Desert Storm but no one is really saying (Chicken shits). Today my doctors suggested that I also start using HGH for about 3 to 6 months. Is an IGF-1 level of 120 low?. What is a normal level for IGF-1 for 43 male. I have not had the nurse consultant for proper injecting and amount of the HGH yet. Sounds like it will be in the stomach around 4 to 5 iu's (?) per day from what I read on the board? Will know more on Monday as far as dosage amount and injection site. This insulin combo sounds tricky.
BTW my energy levels have started to come up. Remember I injected on Weds and got really down because I was not getting the bump from the cyp like I did from the androgel and was really fatigued. I am feeling better now but not where I would like to be still. Thanks for the advice an not injecting beyond the doctors orders. I would have injected again had it not been for some hard words from some of you guys. WTF was I thinking?
03-24-2002, 12:21 AM #2
HGH with Cyp for CFS? No way (at least not yet)...
[Comment: Androplex has stated his situation extremely well. I recommend that readers who are not familiar with his situation use the search feature to review some of his previous posts. Rather than erweviewing it here, I'll simply address the new questions he has raised in this thread.]
First, a brief response to the final question, "WTF was I thinking?" Quite simply, you were waiting for a kick in the ass from your first cyp injection. No big whoop, but it usually doesn't happen that way, especially at therapeutic doses. Cyp is a subtle drug - it will do what it's supposed to do, especially when combined with a good workout routine, and you'll notice results over the next few weeks. But its effect is not akin to, for lack of a better term, a "rush."
Now, as to HGH . . .
I think you have to keep your central goals in mind, namely, ameliorating the symptoms of what appears to be CFS (for newbies, that means Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). You have obviously found that Androgel did the trick for this, and injections of cyp is the next step that has been recommended by your doctor and the treatment team at Cenegenics.
However, I do not concur with Cenegenics when it comes to using HGH. Here are a few reasons . . .
First, you're a big boy naturally. The issue is not your size, but your energy level. And at 6'2" and 200 lbs., you've already got a great foundation that will be helped along by the cyp injections. Until you begin to gauge the results of cyp (which will take at least a few weeks), I would not add HGH at this time.
The test you mentioned, the IGF-1, tests for Insulin-like Growth Factor. This test, according to Quest (the largest testing lab in the U.S.), is "useful in the evaluation of growth deficiencies and acromegaly."
So we understand that, let's havea little small type digression...
ACROMEGALY: Growth and metabolic disorder in which the skeletal extremities enlarge when a pituitary gland tumor causes overproduction of growth hormone after maturity. It is often associated with pituitary gigantism. Acromegaly is characterized by gradual enlargement of hands and feet, exaggeration of facial features, skin thickening, and enlargement of most internal organs, along with headaches, excessive sweating, and high blood pressure. Acromegalic individuals are likely to develop congestive heart failure, muscle weakness, joint pain, osteoporosis, and often diabetes mellitus and visual problems, incl. blindness. If treatment with surgery and/or radiation fails, then hormone therapy is used. Treatment can cause hormone deficiency, necessitating hormone replacement therapy; spontaneous events may also cause hormone deficiency.[Source: Yahoo]
So, in your case, are we talking about acromegaly? Nope. Do you have any growth problems? Notwithstanding that you may want to put on some bulk, nope. So, in order to achieve your primary goals, do you need HGH? Nope.
By the way, I don't know the normal range for the IGF-1 test. My speculation, based on what I know about your situation, is that the IGF-1 test was not necessarily appropriate for you in the first place.
Again, that's not to say that HGH may not help you attain another goal in the future. However - and it's a big however - remember that you are different from most of the guys on this board. Demographically, most of this board's male members are in the 18-30 age range. You are 43 (an age that most members will not begin to appreciate until they reach it). And while the average guy in his late teens or 20's wants to put pounds on, once you hit the 40's the goal of most people becomes taking pounds off. Because it's harder to lose weight in your 40's than it is in your 30's or 20's.
You will gain some pounds with the cyp injections and, combined with a good exercise routine (both cardio and weights or circuit training), you will successfully begin to lower your body fat while increasing your lean muscle mass. All you have to do (in addition to some healthy hard work) is be patient - it ain't gonna happen overnight, but it is doing to happen. Until you have a good indication of how well you're doing on the test alone, I wouldn't recommend skewing the process by adding HGH. You don't need it, and if you have any adverse effects from HGH, it could backfire (since HGH's adverse effects tend not to be reversable).
Your situation is unique insofar as testosterone supplementation has proven useful for CFS symptoms. I cannot make the same speculation about HGH, which is a much different drug. My advice: Don't be too anxious - let the cyp do it's thing, and evaluate the need for anything additional several weeks down the road. Since you just did your first cyp injectino the other day, it's way too early to add to the mix.
Final suggestion: If, in fact, your condition is CFS (and it's a good speculation based on the symptoms, although it's a hard condition with which to be definitive), it would be a good idea to start monitoring one or more CFS boards or forums. I don't know any URL's off the top of my head, but I'm sure they're out there. (Just watch out for whiners - you will tend to find more of them in a CFS support group than you will on an AS forum. But you may get some valuable feedback, even though none of them are likely to conceive the notion of treating CFS with cyp. )
03-24-2002, 08:30 AM #3
Interesting androplex. I was in Desert Storm too. 2nd Armor Division. Exposed to all the sh*t. I thought that I had CFS too. That's one of the primary reasons I found HRT. I started using cyp at 200mg per week. It helped a ton. I don't have bad days anymore. I used to spend a lot of time on the couch. Keep up with the therapy. About week 6 into the first cycle my goals changed; my energy and libido were restored and my depression went away. No more paxil, ever! Now I'm totally into diet and exercise and lead a very active lifestyle again. All that stress that comes with CFS went away, so my job is fun again. Good luck bro, you're not alone and there is hope. You should be back to your normal self in no time. One day very soon, you'll realize that you feel like you did in your twenties again. God bless.
p.s. I've since increased my dose and added deca . I'm not gaining like some of the others, in fact I'm barely gaining but feel really good. I think there may be something too Desert Storm Syndrome and I think it may affect our endocrine system in a way that inhibits us from using our natural test and other hormones properly; maybe our receptors have been down graded or blocked. As you know, some of the chemical's we we're exposed to over there are similar to AIDS and Lupis to some extent. I had extreme anxiety for awhile too, another hormone inbalance related problem. I't puzzling for the doctors that my hormone and blood levels are normal, yet I'm having multiple symptoms of hormone and blood level deficiencies. This is just speculation from my own experience. Perhaps our test levels need to be 1200 plus just to function normal. Hopefully the government will take this seriously someday and help us understand what we're going through.
Last edited by Methuselah; 03-24-2002 at 08:42 AM.
03-25-2002, 04:19 PM #4Donating Member
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deleted by sendor
Last edited by androplex; 04-19-2002 at 09:28 AM.
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