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  1. #1
    rb26dett is offline New Member
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    Sust. eod or not. real evidence/proof wanted.

    i've searched a lot and whenever there is an argument about the frequency of sust injections (which happens a lot), all it is is just along the lines of "this worked best for me.." and such. Does anyone have links to real evidence that eod is better? i.e. blood test levels and such..

  2. #2
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    No flame bro....but the proof is in the amp. Short acting esters MUST be injected more frequently for optimal effectiveness.

  3. #3
    1-Cent's Avatar
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    Theres blood concentration graphs all over the educational forum... Its simple, the two shortest esters will be gone in just a couple days time, its like paying for 500mg and getting more like 350ish, why would you waste money like that?

  4. #4
    Swellin Guest
    The guys are right. there are many links in the educational forum. I know that basskilleronline used to have a pretty good one as well. While you're at it, look up graphs on test prop. Since it makes up 30 or 40mg of your sust (depends on which sust/omna) it should be pretty obvious that it needs to be run EOD at the very latest. IMO, ED would be better. I can't run prop EOD without trippling the sides.

  5. #5
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    "Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

    http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


    "Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

    http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm

  6. #6
    almostgone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    "Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

    http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


    "Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

    http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm
    When I injected prop EOD I'd get itchy nips and feel like crap....I switched to ED injections and I get no sides....so I'd go with the ED injections for anything containing a prop ester every time....

  7. #7
    Swellin Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone
    When I injected prop EOD I'd get itchy nips and feel like crap....I switched to ED injections and I get no sides....so I'd go with the ED injections for anything containing a prop ester every time....
    That makes two of us. My acne skyrocketed! I developed mood swings. I went tow ED and cleared up both problems.

  8. #8
    1-Cent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    "Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

    http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


    "Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

    http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm
    Who ever wrote that last one needs their head examined, anyone who injects Prop 2x... *has nothing nice to say so won't say anything at all*

  9. #9
    almostgone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swellin
    That makes two of us. My acne skyrocketed! I developed mood swings. I went tow ED and cleared up both problems.
    Yeah, it was a real pain....I would go from being calm and laid back to being totally pissed and depressed in about 2.6 seconds and the acne popping up on a 40 year old just ain't right!!! ED injections made for smooth sailing and clearer skin...

  10. #10
    bigjsheets's Avatar
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    I used sust and shot twice a week with great results. I know the amount of prop (short acting) in a 250 mg dose is only 50 mg so that makes up a small percentasge of the test your getting.

  11. #11
    Swellin Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjsheets
    I used sust and shot twice a week with great results. I know the amount of prop (short acting) in a 250 mg dose is only 50 mg so that makes up a small percentasge of the test your getting.
    Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

    Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.

  12. #12
    bigjsheets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swellin
    Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

    Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.
    Okay, i guess in the case of sides that is a very good point. I'm fairly reistant of sides and didnt have any problems. Also, when i shot twice a week, this was well before i knew about this site. If i did it again, i'm sure i would shoot at least eod.

  13. #13
    Jackman's Avatar
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    actually the average male produces 50 -70mg per week of test and 70 is on the high end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swellin
    Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

    Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.

  14. #14
    SV-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb26dett
    i've searched a lot and whenever there is an argument about the frequency of sust injections (which happens a lot), all it is is just along the lines of "this worked best for me.." and such. Does anyone have links to real evidence that eod is better? i.e. blood test levels and such..
    http://www.basskilleronline.com/sustanon250.html

    A new look into doing Sustanon250 by basskiller

    As you can see by the numbers, the quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
    By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.


    On a 3cc case, each hash mark equals 25mgs of sust
    So to shoot
    200mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 3/4 of a ml
    150mgs would be 6 hash marks or a little over 1/2 of a ml
    100mgs would be 4 hash marks or a little under 1/2 of a ml


    Also to do this you will need a sterile 40 or 50 ml empty vial to switch all the sust amps into.
    basskiller

    days.. amount taken.......the amount in the blood stream
    1 ..............200mgs ................190mgs
    2 ..............200 .......................351
    3 ..............200 .......................487
    4 ..............150 .......................555
    5 ..............150 .......................612
    6 ..............100 .......................613
    7 ..............100 .......................614
    Week 2
    8 ..............100 .......................615
    9 ..............100 .......................616
    10.............100 .......................616
    11.............100 .......................617
    12.............100 .......................617
    13.............100 .......................617
    14.............100 .......................618
    Week 3
    15............100 .......................618
    16............100 .......................618
    17............100 .......................618
    18............100 .......................618
    19............100 .......................618
    20............100 .......................619
    21............100 .......................619
    Week 4
    22............100 .......................619
    23............100 .......................619
    24............100 .......................619
    25............100 .......................619
    26............100 .......................619
    27............100 .......................619
    28............100 .......................619
    Week 5
    29...,........100 .......................619
    30............100 .......................619
    31............100 .......................619
    32............100 .......................619
    33............100 .......................619
    34............100 .......................619
    35............100 .......................619
    Week 6
    36............100 .......................619
    37............100 .......................619
    38............100 .......................619
    39............100 .......................619
    40............100 .......................619
    41............100 .......................619
    42............100 .......................619
    Week 7
    43............100 .......................619
    44............100 .......................619
    45............100 .......................619
    46............100 .......................619
    47............100 .......................619
    48............100 .......................619
    49............100 .......................619
    Week 8
    50............100 .......................619
    51............100 .......................619
    52............100 .......................619
    53............100 .......................619
    54............100 .......................619
    55............100 .......................619
    56............100 .......................619


    Also you can see by the numbers...
    Your shooting 700mgs a week, with the exception of the 1st week,
    That your only really doing 619mgs.



    Question:

    So we all have heard that more even T levels (ED injections) means less side effects, right? Why is that? Can someone briefly expand on this idea? What are some other reasons for keeping our T levels as even as possible? Looking for input here to put a reason behind the technique...

    as posted by 46and2aheadofme (the same who made the graph) Thanks 46

    Answer:

    Ok lets see if we can put this into perspective... I've asked some of who I feel are the most knowledgeable guys on these boards about this to see if they agree and yes, so far everyone seems to be on the same page

    The best way to put it is as Andy said .. I'm paraphrasing here


    Many, guys say that dbol is many times more effective when taken throughout the day, Bill Roberts included.
    There seem to be less sides and more gains as opposed to just taking it 1 or 2 times daily....

    The only difference between taking it 1 to 2 times a day and throughout the day is the stability in the blood .

    The higher injection frequency = stable blood levels = better gains and or less sides is simply an extension of this analogy.

    There's no doubt that people gain from injecting sustanon 1x/week... But, at least in theory, it would be better if split up..
    The magnitude of the difference in blood levels increases with dose..
    So the need to split up the injections increases with the dose and may not be that big of a deal on small cycles.






    Here is the normal 3 times a week chart

    Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
    It never gets stable, just Here is Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
    It never gets stable, just develops a pattern after week 7


    1 ...250 .......................238
    2 ...0 ..........................201
    3 ...250 .......................409
    4 ...0 ..........................346
    5 ...250 .......................532
    6 ...0 ..........................451
    7 ...0 ..........................384
    Week 2
    8 ...250 .......................566
    9 ...0 ..........................480
    10...250 .......................646
    11...0 ..........................547
    12...250 .......................703
    13...0 ..........................595
    14...0 ..........................507
    Week 3
    15...250 .......................672
    16...0 ..........................569
    17...250 .......................722
    18...0 ..........................611
    19...250 .......................758
    20...0 ..........................642
    21...0 ..........................547
    Week 4
    22...250 .......................706
    23...0 ..........................598
    24...250 .......................747
    25...0 ..........................632
    26...250 .......................776
    27...0 ..........................657
    28...0 ..........................560
    Week 5
    29...250 .......................717
    30...0 ..........................607
    31...250 .......................755
    32...0 ..........................639
    33...250 .......................782
    34...0 ..........................662
    35...0 ..........................564
    Week 6
    36...250 .......................721
    37...0 ..........................610
    38...250 .......................757
    39...0 ..........................641
    40...250 .......................784
    41...0 ..........................663
    42...0 ..........................656
    Week 7
    43...250 .......................722
    44...0 ..........................611
    45...250 .......................758
    46...0 ..........................642
    47...250 .......................784
    48...0 ..........................664
    49...250 .......................566
    Week 8
    50...250 .......................722
    51...0 ..........................611
    52...250 .......................758
    53...0 ..........................642
    54...250 .......................784
    55...0 ..........................664
    56...0...........................566

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