Sust. eod or not. real evidence/proof wanted.

[rb26dett]

i've searched a lot and whenever there is an argument about the frequency of sust injections (which happens a lot), all it is is just along the lines of "this worked best for me.." and such. Does anyone have links to real evidence that eod is better? i.e. blood test levels and such..

[01dragonslayer]

No flame bro....but the proof is in the amp. Short acting esters MUST be injected more frequently for optimal effectiveness.

[1-Cent]

Theres blood concentration graphs all over the educational forum... Its simple, the two shortest esters will be gone in just a couple days time, its like paying for 500mg and getting more like 350ish, why would you waste money like that?

[Swellin]

The guys are right. there are many links in the educational forum. I know that basskilleronline used to have a pretty good one as well. While you're at it, look up graphs on test prop. Since it makes up 30 or 40mg of your sust (depends on which sust/omna) it should be pretty obvious that it needs to be run EOD at the very latest. IMO, ED would be better. I can't run prop EOD without trippling the sides.

[Alex2]

"Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


"Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm

[almostgone]

"Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


"Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm

When I injected prop EOD I'd get itchy nips and feel like crap....I switched to ED injections and I get no sides....so I'd go with the ED injections for anything containing a prop ester every time....

[Swellin]

When I injected prop EOD I'd get itchy nips and feel like crap....I switched to ED injections and I get no sides....so I'd go with the ED injections for anything containing a prop ester every time....

That makes two of us. My acne skyrocketed! I developed mood swings. I went tow ED and cleared up both problems.

[1-Cent]

"Ara-Test 2500 is .... Like Sustanon , injections should be administered twice weekly (in my opinion) to keep the test propionate levels constant"

http://www.elitefitness.com/members/...stpopular.html


"Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly."

http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironm..._gw_esters.htm

Who ever wrote that last one needs their head examined, anyone who injects Prop 2x... *has nothing nice to say so won't say anything at all*

[almostgone]

That makes two of us. My acne skyrocketed! I developed mood swings. I went tow ED and cleared up both problems.

Yeah, it was a real pain....I would go from being calm and laid back to being totally pissed and depressed in about 2.6 seconds and the acne popping up on a 40 year old just ain't right!!! ED injections made for smooth sailing and clearer skin...

[bigjsheets]

I used sust and shot twice a week with great results. I know the amount of prop (short acting) in a 250 mg dose is only 50 mg so that makes up a small percentasge of the test your getting.

[Swellin]

I used sust and shot twice a week with great results. I know the amount of prop (short acting) in a 250 mg dose is only 50 mg so that makes up a small percentasge of the test your getting.

Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.

[bigjsheets]

Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.

Okay, i guess in the case of sides that is a very good point. I'm fairly reistant of sides and didnt have any problems. Also, when i shot twice a week, this was well before i knew about this site. If i did it again, i'm sure i would shoot at least eod.

[Jackman]

actually the average male produces 50 -70mg per week of test and 70 is on the high end.

Most sust has only 40mg of prop, and you are right...it makes up a very small protion. However, the average adult male is commonly thought to produce between 100-200mg per week of test (most things I have seen indicate it is closer to 75-125mg). Using this, your 40x2 shows that your test levels will fluctuate by an amount almost equal to what an average adult male produces in a week. If you can't see how that would increase the incidence of sides, I'm doing a very poor job of explaining things.

Results are not in question (although consistant blood levels always produce better results than fluctuating blood levels). What is in question here would be the incidence of side effects. We are trying to get the most out of our gear while causing the least amount of sides.

[SV-1]

i've searched a lot and whenever there is an argument about the frequency of sust injections (which happens a lot), all it is is just along the lines of "this worked best for me.." and such. Does anyone have links to real evidence that eod is better? i.e. blood test levels and such..

http://www.basskilleronline.com/sustanon250.html

A new look into doing Sustanon250 by basskiller

As you can see by the numbers, the quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.


On a 3cc case, each hash mark equals 25mgs of sust
So to shoot
200mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 3/4 of a ml
150mgs would be 6 hash marks or a little over 1/2 of a ml
100mgs would be 4 hash marks or a little under 1/2 of a ml


Also to do this you will need a sterile 40 or 50 ml empty vial to switch all the sust amps into.
basskiller

days.. amount taken.......the amount in the blood stream
1 ..............200mgs ................190mgs
2 ..............200 .......................351
3 ..............200 .......................487
4 ..............150 .......................555
5 ..............150 .......................612
6 ..............100 .......................613
7 ..............100 .......................614
Week 2
8 ..............100 .......................615
9 ..............100 .......................616
10.............100 .......................616
11.............100 .......................617
12.............100 .......................617
13.............100 .......................617
14.............100 .......................618
Week 3
15............100 .......................618
16............100 .......................618
17............100 .......................618
18............100 .......................618
19............100 .......................618
20............100 .......................619
21............100 .......................619
Week 4
22............100 .......................619
23............100 .......................619
24............100 .......................619
25............100 .......................619
26............100 .......................619
27............100 .......................619
28............100 .......................619
Week 5
29...,........100 .......................619
30............100 .......................619
31............100 .......................619
32............100 .......................619
33............100 .......................619
34............100 .......................619
35............100 .......................619
Week 6
36............100 .......................619
37............100 .......................619
38............100 .......................619
39............100 .......................619
40............100 .......................619
41............100 .......................619
42............100 .......................619
Week 7
43............100 .......................619
44............100 .......................619
45............100 .......................619
46............100 .......................619
47............100 .......................619
48............100 .......................619
49............100 .......................619
Week 8
50............100 .......................619
51............100 .......................619
52............100 .......................619
53............100 .......................619
54............100 .......................619
55............100 .......................619
56............100 .......................619


Also you can see by the numbers...
Your shooting 700mgs a week, with the exception of the 1st week,
That your only really doing 619mgs.



Question:

So we all have heard that more even T levels (ED injections) means less side effects, right? Why is that? Can someone briefly expand on this idea? What are some other reasons for keeping our T levels as even as possible? Looking for input here to put a reason behind the technique...

as posted by 46and2aheadofme (the same who made the graph) Thanks 46

Answer:

Ok lets see if we can put this into perspective... I've asked some of who I feel are the most knowledgeable guys on these boards about this to see if they agree and yes, so far everyone seems to be on the same page

The best way to put it is as Andy said .. I'm paraphrasing here


Many, guys say that dbol is many times more effective when taken throughout the day, Bill Roberts included.
There seem to be less sides and more gains as opposed to just taking it 1 or 2 times daily....

The only difference between taking it 1 to 2 times a day and throughout the day is the stability in the blood .

The higher injection frequency = stable blood levels = better gains and or less sides is simply an extension of this analogy.

There's no doubt that people gain from injecting sustanon 1x/week... But, at least in theory, it would be better if split up..
The magnitude of the difference in blood levels increases with dose..
So the need to split up the injections increases with the dose and may not be that big of a deal on small cycles.






Here is the normal 3 times a week chart

Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just Here is Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just develops a pattern after week 7


1 ...250 .......................238
2 ...0 ..........................201
3 ...250 .......................409
4 ...0 ..........................346
5 ...250 .......................532
6 ...0 ..........................451
7 ...0 ..........................384
Week 2
8 ...250 .......................566
9 ...0 ..........................480
10...250 .......................646
11...0 ..........................547
12...250 .......................703
13...0 ..........................595
14...0 ..........................507
Week 3
15...250 .......................672
16...0 ..........................569
17...250 .......................722
18...0 ..........................611
19...250 .......................758
20...0 ..........................642
21...0 ..........................547
Week 4
22...250 .......................706
23...0 ..........................598
24...250 .......................747
25...0 ..........................632
26...250 .......................776
27...0 ..........................657
28...0 ..........................560
Week 5
29...250 .......................717
30...0 ..........................607
31...250 .......................755
32...0 ..........................639
33...250 .......................782
34...0 ..........................662
35...0 ..........................564
Week 6
36...250 .......................721
37...0 ..........................610
38...250 .......................757
39...0 ..........................641
40...250 .......................784
41...0 ..........................663
42...0 ..........................656
Week 7
43...250 .......................722
44...0 ..........................611
45...250 .......................758
46...0 ..........................642
47...250 .......................784
48...0 ..........................664
49...250 .......................566
Week 8
50...250 .......................722
51...0 ..........................611
52...250 .......................758
53...0 ..........................642
54...250 .......................784
55...0 ..........................664
56...0...........................566