letro & nolva..run together or not?

I just got my letro,taking 0,5 mg ed thru the cycle. I know some people run nolva 10mg ed togheter with the letro..Is that a good thing or not? Alot of diffrent opinion on this one..So what do YOU think?
Should i add the nolva or not :unsure:

bump

hmm i may also run letro in the future, i thought i heard something on here that after you run letro you have to run nolva though because letro stops estrogen while on and when u go off u can have an estrogen rebound which is why i heard nolva should be ran after. Whether thats true :unsure: but i would like to know
bump

bump!

i'll be running .5 letro along with 10mg nolva throughout my next cycle then at the start of pct i'll drop the letro and bump the nolva up to 20mg along with.25 l-dex

im running 10mg nolv,finast/letro combo at about 1.25 a day.300mg deca and 500mg test-e.when you have gyno sore nipples is it your actual nipples that are sore or under neath.under neath my are kinda sore those little marble like things.is that anything to worry about.

You MUST run together!!!! DO IT you wont be dissapointed.

:banana:

i say run together, nolva helps your lipid profile

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Originally Posted by GettinSwoll47

i say run together, nolva helps your lipid profile

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i say your eyebrows are to bushy

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Originally Posted by peump

i say your eyebrows are to bushy

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They would look better if they were twisted like the old-timer mustache..
Then all he would need is lightning bolts shaved into the side of his head..

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Originally Posted by Chrizzum

They would look better if they were twisted like the old-timer mustache..
Then all he would need is lightning bolts shaved into the side of his head..

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yall are just jealous, by the way can you buy winny or do you need a script..hahahha oh yeah you can drink it tooo

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Originally Posted by james21

You MUST run together!!!! DO IT you wont be dissapointed.

:banana:

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can you explain why you think so ?

well if your taking both at the same time, and your already showing signs of gyno such as soreness, and mammory glands enlarged what dosages would you recommend running when taking both, i know you take about 60-80 of nolva ED untill sign's subside but thats if ur just taking nolva, so what if your also taking letro what should your nolva dosage be, and what should the letro dosage be ED?

It's a good idea to run the nolva because it mimics estrogen in the liver which will help keep your lipid profile steady.

You could run 10mg ED through the cycle with the letro.

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's a good idea to run the nolva because it mimics estrogen in the liver which will help keep your lipid profile steady.

You could run 10mg ED through the cycle with the letro.

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Thank you MudMan! Take your word 4 that!

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's a good idea to run the nolva because it mimics estrogen in the liver which will help keep your lipid profile steady.

You could run 10mg ED through the cycle with the letro.

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This is what I'll be doing. I'll also be tapering off the letro at the end of PCT to avoid the rebound effect.

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Originally Posted by Whitey

This is what I'll be doing. I'll also be tapering off the letro at the end of PCT to avoid the rebound effect.

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Please explain the rebound effect and the tapering off that should be done?

Good thread. I was having these same questions today. Please recommend the amount of letro per day and how to taper towards the end.

One way to do it is to run 1.25mg EOD, then cut it for PCT, and run Nolva 2 days before and 2 weeks after to help with the rebound effect. I'll post the source for that below.

To avoid confusion, this is assuming no Nolva is taken during cycle, since letro provides complete inhibition of aromatase.

Taken from this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/125461-tapering-femara.html --
Written by Lion from AR-R:

Most people are finding that 1.25 eod is more than they need on 2 g of test a week . you can runn a lower dose and then if you see some bloat increase the dose . you should drop it 2 days after you start you tamoxifen ( nolva ).....

Letro does a much better job with estrogen that you don't need the Tamoxifen ( nolva ) is best use for PCt. Letro stops the test from ever converting to Estrogen. Nolva just blocks the receptors. Letro reverses gyno by starving the gland of estrogen and the lump will disapate. This is what it does with Breast Cancer Tumors. the reason to run tamox the 2 days befor and 2 weeka sfter is that there is an estrogen rebound.

I think I will do mine a bit differently - I will maintain the 1.25mg EOD into PCT, and after 10 days, begin decreasing the dose by .25mg every EOD until it's gone, and will pick up with Nolva 2 days before and through the rest of PCT. I hope to be able to reverse a minor case of gyno by doing it this way.

This post by Hooker is too good to not post here for you guys to read up on:

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Originally Posted by hooker

Here's pretty much all you need to know about Letrozole/Femera...first is an article I wrote, and second are two studies preceeded by my comments. Remember, I'm not asking you to "trust me" on any of this....I'm providing full references for every claim I'll make about Letro.



The following was written by me and has been posted on several boards...notably BB4L and SynergyMuscle:


"Femara (AKA Letrozole), is more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97% Levels of estrogen are totally undetectable in any patients taking Letrozole, and it has even been used to increase testosterone to normal levels (from sub-normal ones) and increase LH, FSH and SHBG (Epilepsy Behav. 2004 Apr;5(2):260-3). Other than that, both of these drugs stop the process of aromatization, rather than just blocking (competing for, if you prefer) the receptors as Clomid and Nolvadex do. An effective dose of Letrozole is 1-2.5 mg/day (I use 1mg/day), but be forewarned, it can kill your sex drive, and could decrease IGF levels. On the other hand, I've seen studies where it increases IGF levels. Also worth noting is that there's a rebound effect when you come off Letrozol. What can I say? Letrozole's effects on serum lipids (cholesterol, both HDL and LDL) are, in the words of one researcher: "inconsistent. "And compared with Aromasin and Arimidex, In non-cellular systems, letrozole is 2-5 times more potent than anastrozole and exemestane in its inhibition of the aromatase enzyme and activity, and in cellular systems it is 10-20x more potent! Letrozole (2.5mg daily) also achieved a much greater suppression of the plasma concentrations of both estrone and estrone sulphate (estrogens) than anastrozole (1mg daily) and a greater inhibition of in vivo aromatization also (sorry for the geek-speak.it's over for now.). ( J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Oct;87(1):35-45.)"Finally, you need to take Letrozole for 60 days to get a steady blood plasma level, and it has a whopping 2-4 day (!) ½ life (Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S.). "

Letrozole can also be used in really small amounts...in fact, you can achieve maximum suppression of aromatase at a mere 100mcg (thats not a typo) per day!
( J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60. )

In addition,

It would seem that you can get by on .5mgs/day...or less! And, just like myself (and Lion) have been saying...you can probably (maybe?) use it to combat both estrogen and progesterone! Yeah...it's an anti-progestin, an anti-estrogen, and an aromatase inhibitor....! And finally, not only can it suppress aromatazation and reduce estrogen levels, but it may even reduce progesterone levels (it did so in tumors in one study, any way)
(
Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2002 Nov 15;105(2):161-5. )


Here's the studies I promised you:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60.


Use of ultrasensitive recombinant cell bioassay to measure estrogen levels in women with breast cancer receiving the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole.

Klein KO, Demers LM, Santner SJ, Baron J, Cutler GB Jr, Santen RJ.

Children's Hospital of Orange County, California 92668, USA.

The development of well tolerated, potent, specific, and nontoxic aromatase inhibitors for the treatment of postmenopausal women with estrogen-dependent breast cancer has been a major goal of recent studies. The third generation inhibitors now under investigation are nearly 10,000-fold more potent than first generation compounds. Currently available RIAs for plasma estradiol lack sufficient sensitivity to measure levels during aromatase inhibition and, thus, to assess drug potency precisely. The availability of an ultrasensitive bioassay for estradiol provided the opportunity to accurately assess the potency of a new third generation triazole aromatase inhibitor, letrozole (CGS 20267). We used this assay to measure estradiol levels in 14 women with metastatic breast cancer given letrozole at doses of 100 micrograms to 5.0 mg/day over a 12-week period. The lack of differences between doses and sampling times allowed pooling of data. Basal estradiol levels of 7.2 +/- 1.9 pmol/L (mean +/- SEM, 1.95 +/- 0.52 pg/mL) fell to 0.26 +/- 0.11 pmol/L (0.07 +/- 0.03 pg/mL) during the first 6 weeks of therapy and to 0.48 +/- 0.18 pmol/L (0.13 +/- 0.05 pg/mL) during the second 6 weeks of therapy. Although plasma estradiol levels measured by RIA were significantly correlated with levels measured by bioassay (r = 0.79; P < 0.01), the degree of suppression assessed by the bioassay (95 +/- 2% after 6 weeks) was greater than that determined by the RIA (81 +/- 4%), presumably due to improved ability to measure very low estradiol levels. We conclude that plasma estradiol is suppressed by letrozole to lower levels than previously observed, with equivalent suppression at all doses studied. A slight, although not statistically significant, rebound in estradiol levels occurs during the second 6 weeks of therapy compared to the first 6 weeks. Maximum inhibition of aromatase is achieved at letrozole doses as low as 100 micrograms.


Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2002 Nov 15;105(2):161-5.


Neoadjuvant therapy of endometrial cancer with the aromatase inhibitor letrozole: endocrine and clinical effects.

Berstein L, Maximov S, Gershfeld E, Meshkova I, Gamajunova V, Tsyrlina E, Larionov A, Kovalevskij A, Vasilyev D.

Laboratory Oncoendocrinology, N.N. Petrov Research Institute of Oncology, St. Petersburg 197758, Russia. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the short-term hormonal and clinical effects of the aromatase inhibitor letrozole (Femara) in patients with endometrial cancer. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Ten previously untreated, post-menopausal patients (mean age 59 years) with endometrial cancer, predominantly stage I disease, received letrozole 2.5mg per day for 14 days before surgery. Clinical, sonographic, morphologic, cytologic, and hormonal-metabolic parameters (blood estradiol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), glucose, and cholesterol by radioimmunoassay, enzyme immune assay, or enzyme-colorimetric methods; tumor progesterone receptors by ligand-binding assay; and aromatase activity by 3H-water release assay) were evaluated before and after treatment. RESULTS: Treatment was well-tolerated in all patients. In two patients, pain relief in the lower part of the belly and/or decrease in intensity of uterine discharge was reported. In the three cases, substantial decreases in endometrial M-echo (ultrasound) signal were noted; the mean value of this parameter after treatment was 31.1% lower than before treatment. Blood estradiol concentration decreased by an average of 37.8% after letrozole therapy, and tumor progesterone receptor levels and aromatase activity decreased by 34.4 and 17.5%, respectively. Treatment with letrozole did not influence surgery. CONCLUSIONS: These data show that short-term treatment with letrozole in the neoadjuvant setting resulted in some positive clinical changes. Longer-term and larger-scale trials of neoadjuvant letrozole in endometrial cancer are warranted.

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Hey I consulted on that article ...and I provided the study info ...

Nolva Is not needed while on It should be run after the letro is dropped to avoid the rebound

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Originally Posted by Lion

Hey I consulted on that article ...and I provided the study info ...

Nolva Is not needed while on It should be run after the letro is dropped to avoid the rebound

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Lion, thanks for the excellent information, bro! I am doing exactly what you said here. My only concern is the amount of time needed to build up the needed plasma levels of letro before it is effective. Can this be sped up by taking larger doses?

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's a good idea to run the nolva because it mimics estrogen in the liver which will help keep your lipid profile steady.

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IMO...I agree that this is a good reason to run the nolva with the letro...
Also...start your letro before you start your test, as it needs a little time...you wouldn't want to develope a problem before it became effective...
Good luck to ya...

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Originally Posted by Froggy

IMO...I agree that this is a good reason to run the nolva with the letro...
Also...start your letro before you start your test, as it needs a little time...you wouldn't want to develope a problem before it became effective...
Good luck to ya...

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****! "yes run the nolva" "no you you dont need nolva"...still confused..i think i stick to nolva at 10 mg ed anyway.. :scratch:

^^^^

bump this!

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Originally Posted by Whitey

Lion, thanks for the excellent information, bro! I am doing exactly what you said here. My only concern is the amount of time needed to build up the needed plasma levels of letro before it is effective. Can this be sped up by taking larger doses?

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Bumping this question as I am wondering the same thing. Also, what is the time until Letro is effective. I believe I saw 2 weeks.

We could definitely use a word on this - especially as the above study says: "Finally, you need to take Letrozole for 60 days to get a steady blood plasma level...

I'm sure it would be effective well before the 60 days, but that is a long time nonetheless. And from most posts I've read, I think most users are not even budgeting 2 weeks right now.

Bump

that was a very informative article.. I am going to do just that.. I am going to take 1.25 mg of Letro EOD starting 3 days before my cycle starts. I am going to run it into my PCT. I will start taking Nolva 2 days before stopping letro and keep taking the Nolva until 2 weeks after stopping letro. Will also be using Clomid the day i stop Letro.

So is tapering necesary or as long as i do the Nolva swapping ill be fine??
And what abotu squirts to milligrams?