Dbol vs. M1T

**MACHI** · 02-06-2005, 01:59 PM

Just out of curiosity... Can anyone here actually EXPLAIN what the difference is between a Dbol only cycle and a M1T only cycle that makes M1T so much more accepted as an oral only cycle? I don't understand why someone can go around saying M1T is ok to do by itself and dbol is not....I have my info from my side ready to go I just want to hear some justification for these claims first....

--- Nolva or Adex would be taken with Dbol
--- something like 1-AD or 4-androdiol would be taken with M1T
--- both followed up by pct

**tupac1983** · 02-06-2005, 02:17 PM

bump

**Bryan2** · 02-06-2005, 07:16 PM

M1T is DBOL thats been 5alpha reduced same drug

M1T cant convert to estrogen so mainly gains are solid and not mostly water.

4ad or test should always be used for shutdown

Oral only cycles can work but they require stricter pct because the quicker gains come the quicker that they leave.

**MACHI** · 02-08-2005, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan2

M1T is DBOL thats been 5alpha reduced same drug

M1T cant convert to estrogen so mainly gains are solid and not mostly water.

4ad or test should always be used for shutdown

Oral only cycles can work but they require stricter pct because the quicker gains come the quicker that they leave.

Saying that M1T is Dbol thats been 5alpha reduced so there the same drug is like saying that DHT is the same drug as testosterone , or like saying that methytestosterone is the same drug as methandrostenelone except the C-4 double bond is now accompanied by a C1-2 dboule bond respectively. Its just not that simple. The presence of a double bond can dramatically alter the pharmokenetics of a drug in the body. Bryan I'm not attacking what you say i'm just trying to illustrate that ALL steroids are remarkably similar in structure but their functions are dramatically different.

I don't know why people insist on counting water gains as part of their Dbol gains. You still make SOLID gains with dbol but you just hold a little more water. This can be easily prevented with some nolva or proviron .

My point was that BOTH dbol and M1T shut the body's test production down. So the gains of both are equally hard to keep without pct. I just never understood why the same person could be an advocate of an M1T oral only cycle only to turn around and bash Dbol only cycles.

**prolangtum** · 02-09-2005, 12:48 AM

The only reason M 1T only cycles are popular is because mosle who use M 1T were staying totally legal, and did nto want to purchase injectables. IMO, both M 1T and Dbol should be "supported" with some Test.

**Whitey** · 02-09-2005, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by prolangtum

The only reason M 1T only cycles are popular is because mosle who use M 1T were staying totally legal, and did nto want to purchase injectables. IMO, both M 1T and Dbol should be "supported" with some Test.

Exactly right. Even the people advocating M1T cycles recommended running 4-AD as well. And even then, these cycles were far from ideal. It's just that the world of legal hormones was a lot smaller. And now it's reeaally small...

**Bryan2** · 02-09-2005, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by MACHI

Saying that M1T is Dbol thats been 5alpha reduced so there the same drug is like saying that DHT is the same drug as testosterone , or like saying that methytestosterone is the same drug as methandrostenelone except the C-4 double bond is now accompanied by a C1-2 dboule bond respectively. Its just not that simple. The presence of a double bond can dramatically alter the pharmokenetics of a drug in the body. Bryan I'm not attacking what you say i'm just trying to illustrate that ALL steroids are remarkably similar in structure but their functions are dramatically different.

I don't know why people insist on counting water gains as part of their Dbol gains. You still make SOLID gains with dbol but you just hold a little more water. This can be easily prevented with some nolva or proviron .

My point was that BOTH dbol and M1T shut the body's test production down. So the gains of both are equally hard to keep without pct. I just never understood why the same person could be an advocate of an M1T oral only cycle only to turn around and bash Dbol only cycles.

DHT and test have different functions just like m1t and dbol but essentially they have the same characteristics with rapid weight gain its just M1T is a pure androgen so there shouldnt be any water gainned on cycle (even though there usually is) probably due to remaining dbol in the pills because the process is difficult.

When you look at it the gains are really the same in terms in LBM after water loss with DBOL with M1T being slightly more anabolic mg for mg

Test should be the base of every cycle and as I stated the quicker the gains come the quicker they leave.

Any type of steroid administration can be effective wheter dermal,sublingual,oral,IM its just about getting enough of the active chem in your blood.

The main reason why IM gains stay longer is they for lack of a better word "solidify" because they are supported by anabolics for a longer period of time before pct.

**Reelmuscle** · 02-09-2005, 01:42 PM

So, in conclusion, what is the better choice for a 2nd cycle?

Test/Decca/Dbol cycle or Test/Decca/M1t cycle?

**longhorn814** · 02-09-2005, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=Bryan2]M1T is DBOL thats been 5alpha reduced same drug

QUOTE]

Although I dont have it in front of me right now, if I remember correctly M1T is a methylated version of primo. Correct me if Im wrong, but I think I remember reading that in Anabolics 2005. Thats very similar to the fact that dbol is methylated form of Eq. Think about this, both primo and Eq are pretty mild, but methylate them and all of a sudden theyre not so mild. Its pretty amazing to think about the power of methylation!

**Bryan2** · 02-09-2005, 02:41 PM

Nope m1t is 5 alpha reduced DBOL

Primo is already methylated at the 1 position

Most orals are Methylated at the 17th.

**dublin** · 02-09-2005, 03:25 PM

bump

**longhorn814** · 02-09-2005, 06:32 PM

according to anabolics 2005 M1T can be looked at as some kind of bastard almalgamation of primo, winstrol , and tren . It has the basic 1-ene structure of primo, bioavailability of a methylated oral like winny and the high potency of a strong androgen receptor like tren. As a primo derivative, M1T doesnt aromatize. It lacks the basic 4-ene group necessary for aromatization

**Bryan2** · 02-09-2005, 08:08 PM

Dbol =methyl boldenone
M1T=methyl dihyrdo boldenone

Look up the chem structures

**THA GONZ** · 02-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Primo = 17beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one

M1T = 17a-methyl-1-androstene-17b-ol-3-one

1test = 17beta-hydroxyandrost-1-en-3-one

d-bol = 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadien-3-one

these are the chemical names, maybe that will help? Primo chemicaly looks more like 1test to me.

**alluprbdy** · 02-09-2005, 08:42 PM

wow you guys this sh#ts over my head, freaking scientists. I have wondered the same thing before though intersting post.

**Glock-19** · 02-09-2005, 09:01 PM

I agree with runnin test with m1t,dbol ,winny,ext.

**james21** · 02-09-2005, 10:08 PM

If everything else is in check then you will gain and keep, off of either substance.

**Bryan2** · 02-09-2005, 10:45 PM

Yes once the substance is 5 alpha reduced it changes its properties and chem structure but 1 test is dihydro boldenone and methylated 1 test= MDHB

It most closely resembles primo but does not act in any way like it other than not converting to estrogen the methyl attachment at the 1 position completley changes the chem properties making it much more mild.

**MACHI** · 02-10-2005, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Bryan2

Yes once the substance is 5 alpha reduced it changes its properties and chem structure but 1 test is dihydro boldenone and methylated 1 test= MDHB

It most closely resembles primo but does not act in any way like it other than not converting to estrogen the methyl attachment at the 1 position completley changes the chem properties making it much more mild.

Bryan2 is the only one here thats really making sense. Keep in mind that, as I said in my previous post, most of the steroid chemical structures are **** near identical. That does not mean that their functions in the body are anywhere near the same. If you have any chemistry knowledge at all, you'll know that even the stereoisomer of a molecule can drastically alter its function in the body ie) whether it fits vs. not fits into an enzyme. M1T is much more like Dbol than primo, however, the two drugs are FAR from synonomous.

The original point of this post was to illustrate that Dbol is NO different than M1T when it comes to keeping gains. Many people would knock Dbol only cycles only to turn around and recommend M1T cycles as an alternative. Whether its legal or not, users taking M1T without any PCT would experience the same gain retention drawbacks as users taking Dbol. **** like 6-oxo is nowhere near adequate for PCT. So, in an effort to stay legal, people taking M1T with 6-oxo or zma, or tribulus etc... were far worse off than people taking Dbol with clomid and nolva since we both know that M1T is just as hardcore of an anabolic as Dbol.

Its also not true that the faster gains come the faster they go. No matter how fast LBM was gained it can still be retained provided one's HPTA achieves homeostasis as quickly as possible. The quicker ones baseline test levels are restored after a cycle the more gains the person will keep.

**MACHI** · 02-10-2005, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by prolangtum

The only reason M 1T only cycles are popular is because mosle who use M 1T were staying totally legal, and did nto want to purchase injectables. IMO, both M 1T and Dbol should be "supported" with some Test.

When most people argued for M1T cycles they didn't say that it was just because it was legal. They said that it was somehow better at letting you keep your gains than Dbol ....

**Bryan2** · 02-10-2005, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by MACHI

Bryan2 is the only one here thats really making sense. Keep in mind that, as I said in my previous post, most of the steroid chemical structures are **** near identical. That does not mean that their functions in the body are anywhere near the same. If you have any chemistry knowledge at all, you'll know that even the stereoisomer of a molecule can drastically alter its function in the body ie) whether it fits vs. not fits into an enzyme. M1T is much more like Dbol than primo, however, the two drugs are FAR from synonomous.

The original point of this post was to illustrate that Dbol is NO different than M1T when it comes to keeping gains. Many people would knock Dbol only cycles only to turn around and recommend M1T cycles as an alternative. Whether its legal or not, users taking M1T without any PCT would experience the same gain retention drawbacks as users taking Dbol. **** like 6-oxo is nowhere near adequate for PCT. So, in an effort to stay legal, people taking M1T with 6-oxo or zma, or tribulus etc... were far worse off than people taking Dbol with clomid and nolva since we both know that M1T is just as hardcore of an anabolic as Dbol.

Its also not true that the faster gains come the faster they go. No matter how fast LBM was gained it can still be retained provided one's HPTA achieves homeostasis as quickly as possible. The quicker ones baseline test levels are restored after a cycle the more gains the person will keep.

Well said...

**BDTR** · 02-10-2005, 04:50 AM

Keeping a better percentage, yes. But if you're going strictly by poundage, I'd say you'd keep more with dbol .

Originally Posted by MACHI

When most people argued for M1T cycles they didn't say that it was just because it was legal. They said that it was somehow better at letting you keep your gains than Dbol....

**Megadeth** · 02-10-2005, 09:36 AM

Hey fellas. I'm from Canada, and would prob. have a bit of a hard time finding most anabolics. Not that I'm overly interested in taking them....but yesterday M1T was recomended to me by a friend. So I'm just wondering what people normally take with it that is over the counter in Canada. I'm pretty sure he took solely a m1t cycle. I thought someone mentioned taking tribulus and zma as well. Why would these particular supplements be beneficial to M1t? And my second question is how do u cycle M1t? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? Thanks for yer help

**rev911apollyon** · 02-10-2005, 10:22 AM

I've done both M1t (with 4-ad+) and Dbol . and i would have to say Dbol was better as far as noticing more gains and more weight gain, even though with both its hard to keep gains. But I would go with Dbol

***Narkissos*** · 02-10-2005, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Megadeth

Hey fellas. I'm from Canada, and would prob. have a bit of a hard time finding most anabolics. Not that I'm overly interested in taking them....but yesterday M1T was recomended to me by a friend. So I'm just wondering what people normally take with it that is over the counter in Canada. I'm pretty sure he took solely a m1t cycle. I thought someone mentioned taking tribulus and zma as well. Why would these particular supplements be beneficial to M1t? And my second question is how do u cycle M1t? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? Thanks for yer help

Here's where i suggest you start your OWN thread...as hijacking is normally veiwed as rude

***Narkissos*** · 02-10-2005, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by MACHI

I don't understand why someone can go around saying M1T is ok to do by itself and dbol is not....

I don't understand either...

On paper.. neither cycle is an advisable one... tho some people quote scientific studies comparing the anabolicity of M1T to being comparatively higher than that of Testosterone .

In my personal experience..neither d-bol only nor M1T only is a good cycle.

I WILL submit tho... i maintained more post-d-bol cycle than post-M1T cycle

**Whitey** · 02-10-2005, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by MACHI

The original point of this post was to illustrate that Dbol is NO different than M1T when it comes to keeping gains. Many people would knock Dbol only cycles only to turn around and recommend M1T cycles as an alternative. Whether its legal or not, users taking M1T without any PCT would experience the same gain retention drawbacks as users taking Dbol. **** like 6-oxo is nowhere near adequate for PCT. So, in an effort to stay legal, people taking M1T with 6-oxo or zma, or tribulus etc... were far worse off than people taking Dbol with clomid and nolva since we both know that M1T is just as hardcore of an anabolic as Dbol.

Bro, you make some good points here. Whenever I have given advice regarding M1T, I have treated it as a potent anabolic , and recommended full PCT. Additionally, I have recommended running it with test (if available) or 4-AD (when it was available). Again, as I said above, most people looking to run an M1T cycle do so either because they lack the resources to acquire AAS, or when prohormones were legal, simply wanted to go at this the legal way. Either way, these cycles were less than optimal, and everybody knew it! The best you could do for people is tell them how to run it safely through the use of ancillaries, and how to run proper PCT.

I just don't know where all these people are who are recommending M1t only cycles. I'm sure not one of them. And I don't really consider it hypocritical to criticize d-bol only cycles and not spend equal time criticizing M1T, due to that people could pick up M1T perfectly legally. To add test, they would have to acquire a controlled substance. In essence, it's guys saying, here's what I could get, now how can I make this work? While it's far from optimal, it's at least understandable. I distinguish that situation from d-bol only, where the person has already acquired a controlled substance, and either out of ignorance or fear of needles opted to not pick up the other compounds needed to make a good cycle. You're already in the game, you might as well learn the rules and play it right.

It's all a moot point now, though, because you'll have to acquire M1T illegally now too. So now, I'd agree - there is no difference between M1T only and d-bol only cycles.

**MACHI** · 02-10-2005, 04:38 PM

[QUOTE=Whitey]
I just don't know where all these people are who are recommending M1t only cycles. I'm sure not one of them. And I don't really consider it hypocritical to criticize d-bol only cycles and not spend equal time criticizing M1T, due to that people could pick up M1T perfectly legally. To add test, they would have to acquire a controlled substance. In essence, it's guys saying, here's what I could get, now how can I make this work? While it's far from optimal, it's at least understandable. I distinguish that situation from d-bol only, where the person has already acquired a controlled substance, and either out of ignorance or fear of needles opted to not pick up the other compounds needed to make a good cycle. You're already in the game, you might as well learn the rules and play it right.
QUOTE]

Your right thats really what it was. However, given the strong and potentially dangerous nature of both Dbol and M1T, I would have expected knowledgable bros to discourage the use of M1T without proper PCT let alone as an oral only cycle! I mean the 'first time gear user' comes on this board and says 'Hey guys! I just bought some M1T at my local nutrition store! What now?' Then the guys recommend only legal PCT alternatives like 6-oxo, zma, tribulus etc all without giving the noobie really any criticism at all - like they treated M1T as a mild prohormone. Meanwhile, the noobie reads the responses and is like ok M1T is perfectly safe to take as long as I use my 6-oxo etc. He dosn't understand, and no one really ever bothers to tell him, that the OTC PCT products out there are for ****. Then, when this guy crashes after his cycle he has no idea why he looses most of his gains because he was under the impression he did proper PCT. I mean the situation is comparable to someone obtaining alcohol vs. obtaining grandma's cough syrup or the like. (provided alcohol was illegal) Yeah you can get fu cke d up off cough syrup as a legal alternative but that dosn't mean that it should be done or that I'm going to tell you how and at the very least NOT criticize you for doing it! Its just not healthy.... Thats the closest analogy my brain fried mind can come up with right now. Thats all I was trying to say... But your right in the end. its a moot point. Because both M1T and Dbol are illegal now thanks to our friends on capitol hill those old, fat, flabby, high cholesterol havin, out of shape lard asses.